Sick Goku vs Goku (post-Yardrat)

[Fantastische Hure]

Initial Sick Goku who fought Android #19, before he started losing energy. His energy doesn't go down, though for the purpose of this thread.

Who wins?

 

[SSJ2]

Sick Goku stomps. Tenshinhan is still astounded by his power and only Piccolo notices that he is weaker than what he should be.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Sick Goku stomps. Tenshinhan is still astounded by his power and only Piccolo notices that he is weaker than what he should be.

Piccolo also said he was close to full-power.

 

[ahill1]

Sick Goku stomps. Tenshinhan is still astounded by his power and only Piccolo notices that he is weaker than what he should be.

Piccolo also said he was close to full-power.

Goku is close to full power in his current conditions:

Chapter 341 (DBZ 147), P8.4-5, P9.
Piccolo: “Have you noticed too, Gohan?...”
Gohan: “Y-yes…”
Piccolo: “Son Goku is rushing the match for some reason…He’s already putting out close to his full power…But even so, what’s with that miserable condition of his?...”
Tenshinhan: “Th-that miserable condition…!? What are you talking about? Goku’s overwhelmingly pushing him back…!”
Piccolo: “It’s not that. As a Super Saiyan, Goku’s power should be more stupendous than this…”
Note: Several people thought this quote was contradictory, due to how Piccolo says Goku is using almost his full power but should have much better power than that. To me though it seems pretty straightforward: Goku is using almost all the power he has in his current sick condition, but Piccolo realizes Goku's full power should be much more than that.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Sick Goku stomps. Tenshinhan is still astounded by his power and only Piccolo notices that he is weaker than what he should be.

Piccolo also said he was close to full-power.

Goku is close to full power in his current conditions:

Chapter 341 (DBZ 147), P8.4-5, P9.
Piccolo: “Have you noticed too, Gohan?...”
Gohan: “Y-yes…”
Piccolo: “Son Goku is rushing the match for some reason…He’s already putting out close to his full power…But even so, what’s with that miserable condition of his?...”
Tenshinhan: “Th-that miserable condition…!? What are you talking about? Goku’s overwhelmingly pushing him back…!”
Piccolo: “It’s not that. As a Super Saiyan, Goku’s power should be more stupendous than this…”
Note: Several people thought this quote was contradictory, due to how Piccolo says Goku is using almost his full power but should have much better power than that. To me though it seems pretty straightforward: Goku is using almost all the power he has in his current sick condition, but Piccolo realizes Goku's full power should be much more than that.

I think Piccolo would have said something if that was the case. Condition just means his stamina and durability in my opinion. Goku is much worse at it than usual. I think if he meant what you said Piccolo'd have specified. At this point Piccolo just thought something was wrong with Goku, but not out-right sick.

He even says Goku was close to full-power, as if to say everything seems normal but his condition/stamina.

 

[ahill1]

By "miserable condition" he isn't referring to just Goku's stamina and durability. Look at his response to Tenshinhan: "As a Super Saiyan, Goku’s power should be more stupendous than this" - he specifically noted his power, which indicates is at least related with the conditions he was talking about.

Viz substituted the "he's already putting out close to his full power" for "he's already giving all he's got", which further backs up that Piccolo wasn't talking in relate to Goku's full power, but rather to what he was using in that situation:

There are also implications of #19 post being at least in the realm of SSJ sick Goku, due to Gero stating that Vegeta SSJ would also be no match for us androids and it's unlikely he was expecting Vegeta to be below sick Goku.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

By "miserable condition" he isn't referring to just Goku's stamina and durability. Look at his response to Tenshinhan: "As a Super Saiyan, Goku’s power should be more stupendous than this" - he specifically noted his power, which indicates is at least related with the conditions he was talking about.

Viz substituted the "he's already putting out close to his full power" for "he's already giving all he's got", which further backs up that Piccolo wasn't talking in relate to Goku's full power, but rather to what he was using in that situation:

There are also implications of #19 post being at least in the realm of SSJ sick Goku, due to Gero stating that Vegeta SSJ would also be no match for us androids and it's unlikely he was expecting Vegeta to be below sick Goku.

He does say Goku's power should be more stupendous, but that's already obvious from him saying Goku is only using "close to his full power". The first thing Piccolo comments on is Goku seemingly rushing the fight for no reason, and wasting stamina for seemingly no reason, he even says Goku is close to full power. Thinking why is Goku rushing the fight like this, if he seems fairly normal power-wise.

I'd say he was using maybe 80% of his power.

That's Viz's interpretation, I don't know whether they can really be used in this debate.

 

[ahill1]

I didn't say power was the only thing Piccolo was talking about, but it's a factor too, just see his response to Tenshinhan. Viz also substituted the "miserable condition" to "weak", which goes hand in hand with Piccolo's later response.

Viz is worthy using here, since Herms' translation isn't set in stone, moreover it goes along with Herms' interpretation of the line.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I didn't say power was the only thing Piccolo was talking about, but it's a factor too, just see his response to Tenshinhan. Viz also substituted the "miserable condition" to "weak", which goes hand in hand with Piccolo's later response.

Viz is worthy using here, since Herms' translation isn't set in stone, moreover it goes along with Herms' interpretation of the line.

Well yeah, but those are both interpretations. Unless someone on Kanzenshuu asks Herms whether that interpretation is set-in stone or just an interpretation, I think I am not wrong.

 

[Papasmurf]

Knowing Toriyama's tendency to wank Freeza, since Yardrat Goku was enough to defeat him he'd most likely win

 

[ahill1]

I didn't say power was the only thing Piccolo was talking about, but it's a factor too, just see his response to Tenshinhan. Viz also substituted the "miserable condition" to "weak", which goes hand in hand with Piccolo's later response.

Viz is worthy using here, since Herms' translation isn't set in stone, moreover it goes along with Herms' interpretation of the line.

Well yeah, but those are both interpretations. Unless someone on Kanzenshuu asks Herms whether that interpretation is set-in stone or just an interpretation, I think I am not wrong.

Well, what do you think "more estupendous" mean? I think it indicates a big gap, you no?

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I didn't say power was the only thing Piccolo was talking about, but it's a factor too, just see his response to Tenshinhan. Viz also substituted the "miserable condition" to "weak", which goes hand in hand with Piccolo's later response.

Viz is worthy using here, since Herms' translation isn't set in stone, moreover it goes along with Herms' interpretation of the line.

Well yeah, but those are both interpretations. Unless someone on Kanzenshuu asks Herms whether that interpretation is set-in stone or just an interpretation, I think I am not wrong.

Well, what do you think "more estupendous" mean? I think it indicates a big gap, you no?

He says more stupendous as if to say Goku's Ki already is stupendous but it could be even greater, soooooo...

I'd say initially he starts-out at about 80% of his power.

 

[ahill1]

Herms seems to see the "more stupendous" as an indicative of a big gap.

Note: Several people thought this quote was contradictory, due to how Piccolo says Goku is using almost his full power but should have much better power than that. To me though it seems pretty straightforward: Goku is using almost all the power he has in his current sick condition, but Piccolo realizes Goku's full power should be much more than that.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Herms seems to see the "more stupendous" as an indicative of a big gap.

Note: Several people thought this quote was contradictory, due to how Piccolo says Goku is using almost his full power but should have much better power than that. To me though it seems pretty straightforward: Goku is using almost all the power he has in his current sick condition, but Piccolo realizes Goku's full power should be much more than that.

80/100 can be considered much higher.

It's obviously obvious enough to Piccolo.

 

[ahill1]

So if it's much higher isn't close

 

[Fantastische Hure]

So if it's much higher isn't close

No.

Piccolo says Goku's power should be more stupendous, but says Goku is close to full-power, hence I think Goku was already using close to his full-power but enough to notice something was wrong.

 

[ahill1]

Piccolo says Goku's power should be more stupendous, but says Goku is close to full-power, hence I think Goku was already using close to his full-power but enough to notice something was wrong.

Ok, not denying it. But you just said that a 80/100 gap can be considered much higher, which isn't the same as being close.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Piccolo says Goku's power should be more stupendous, but says Goku is close to full-power, hence I think Goku was already using close to his full-power but enough to notice something was wrong.

Ok, not denying it. But you just said that a 80/100 gap can be considered much higher, which isn't the same as being close.

How about I put it this way:

He was using most of his power.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

The first time Tien felt Goku's power as SSjin was during against the Androids.

 

[ahill1]

Or according to Toriyama