Since the bandwagon for this has appeared...

Captain Cadaver

Zeta Elite
Retired Staff
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
27,967
Pretty indifferent, seeing as how the manga version was still a nonsensical story revolving around the bane of good writing that is time travel. It's like comparing both the anime and manga versions of the Future Trunks Arc in which is less :trash

Manga's still noticeably better though all things considered, particularly due to it not offering quite as many next level feats to :zorc like the anime did with the eclipse scene, which if anything, made his defeat once Atem remembered his name all the more underwhelming, not to mention Yugi only defeating one of the God cards is far more realistic than taking down all three.
 

Papasmurf

Zeta Elite
Legend
Member
Joined
May 30, 2015
Messages
30,964
Well, the manga version explains it's really a shadow game held in the museum using Atem's memories to proceed the plot rather than the time travel-esque faggotry from the anime, but yeah the plot did go to shit near the end.

Do you still think the Dartz filler is better than the :zorc arc? I personally disliked the former more due to all developments just being reset at the end of the arc as well as next level card game wanking that made Battle City's god card wank look like a joke, on top of Nyeh Joey being chosen making no real sense when even Marik or Bakura would make a better candidate due to not being an average joe.
 

Captain Cadaver

Zeta Elite
Retired Staff
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
27,967
The :zorc arc is the better of the two if taking it's manga self into account. Comparing the anime though, it could go either way. I found the Orichalchos card to be a more interesting gimmick than most of the events of the Zorc Arc, particularly the idea of Yugi having some level of conflict when he almost killed Haga/Weevil and the new characters introduced in the arc at least weren't literal carbon copies of pre-existing characters like every character from Atem's memories who wasn't Zorc. On the other hand, the "Beyond Infinite" strategy may very well be the dumbest asspull in the entire YGO anime's history, not to mention the brainwashing trope is always an uninteresting one, especially coupled with such generic dialogue as "I know the real you's in there somewhere". Pretty hard to say which arc is worse than the other, though I'd probably say the Zorc Arc is minimally better due to how little impact the Dartz events had on the plot or characters in the long term. For an arc they gave a good amount of time and focus on (providing it's characters prominence in the opening and having quite the hefty amount of episodes for filler), they should've at least done what Toei did with Saint Seiya's Asgard filler and rewrite the Zorc Arc somewhat so the events with Dartz made a smooth transition and impact into the final arc.

In regard to Joey being chosen, I'd say it makes sense. Marik and Bakura only showed prominence thanks to their Millennium items' personalities (plus the Dragons may have deduced that giving one of their cards to Yami Bakura would run the risk of him forming an alliance with Dartz and ultimately using everyone for his own gain), not to mention that with Joey's duel with Marik, he would've won had it not been for the damage he sustained from the Shadow Game. I wouldn't take into account Marik's statement of going easy on Joey as holding much weight either, given how he didn't seem to have any viable options to counter Joey and the line only seems to exist to hype up Marik VS Yugi as being the pinnacle of Battle City's duels.
 

Keedounan

Elite
Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2016
Messages
5,276
Age
27
Captain Cadaver said:
I like her initial design in terms of both looks and originality. The scientist look stands out pretty well compared to other villains and her general appearance with the pale skin and striking eyes make it obvious why Kuririn now has a low-key Artificial Human fetish. Her true form or whatever her Majin-esque self is supposed to be is completely unoriginal however and just a bastardisation of what was originally a unique design.

I see. What do you think about her character in general (if you know something about her, ofc) ?
 

Captain Cadaver

Zeta Elite
Retired Staff
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
27,967
Pretty typical twist villain of a seeming ally turning out to be the villain. Her role as turning into a super powerful villain is a lot less of an interesting role than Towa played, since valuing her power over her intelligence after going into her Majin form is a betrayal of her premise. It doesn't help that her obsession with food becomes annoying after a few lines of dialogue.
Her character is at her best during the Android 21 Arc of the story due to her good personality's interactions with the rest of the cast being well presented. However, the idea of separating the main villain into good and evil selves is far too much of a simplistic and poorly written trope that's already been done before in DB with Katatz's son and Boo (and done far better in the case of the former), so I don't see it as offering anything interesting to her character, especially with her death at the end causing her to have as much impact and potential on the series as you'd expect of a video game exclusive character.

2/10
 

Keedounan

Elite
Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2016
Messages
5,276
Age
27
Captain Cadaver said:
Pretty typical twist villain of a seeming ally turning out to be the villain. Her role as turning into a super powerful villain is a lot less of an interesting role than Mira played, since valuing her power over her intelligence after going into her Majin form is a betrayal of her premise. It doesn't help that her obsession with food becomes annoying after a few lines of dialogue.
Her character is at her best during the Android 21 Arc of the story due to her good personality's interactions with the rest of the cast being well presented. However, the idea of separating the main villain into good and evil selves is far too much of a simplistic and poorly written trope that's already been done before in DB with Katatz's son and Boo (and done far better in the case of the former), so I don't see it as offering anything interesting to her character, especially with her death at the end causing her to have as much impact and potential on the series as you'd expect of a video game exclusive character.

2/10

Spot-on as usual, aren't we ?

Well, what about Demigra ?
 

Captain Cadaver

Zeta Elite
Retired Staff
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
27,967
Not much to say about him other than how horribly bland he is. His personality is nothing beyond just being stock villain #3249 and his role in the last stages of the story just make him feel awkwardly shoehorned in just because Mira got "killed", Towa was a non-threat at this point and the game needed an antagonist. His transformation also seems utterly pointless. Not only is it far too drastic a change in appearance to seem reasonable (not sure why he even had a humanoid form in the first place unless he has a Zarbon complex), but it's reason of existence to up the ante in the final battle is both unnecessary and wasted. The Time Patroller and Goku have just as easy a time against him as against his base form (hell, I even found the battle against Base Demigra and Trunks far more challenging than fighting Super Demigra), but his array of fairly annoying abilities would be enough to compensate a power disadvantage during the climax and if anything, would make it far more interesting. Can't stretch it out much further beyond him being more a caricature than character and an utter waste.

1/10. Mira and Towa should've just remained the primary antagonists as they did in Xenoverse 2.
 

Keedounan

Elite
Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2016
Messages
5,276
Age
27
Captain Cadaver said:
Not much to say about him other than how horribly bland he is. His personality is nothing beyond just being stock villain #3249 and his role in the last stages of the story just make him feel awkwardly shoehorned in just because Mira got "killed", Towa was a non-threat at this point and the game needed an antagonist. His transformation also seems utterly pointless. Not only is it far too drastic a change in appearance to seem reasonable (not sure why he even had a humanoid form in the first place unless he has a Zarbon complex), but it's reason of existence to up the ante in the final battle is both unnecessary and wasted. The Time Patroller and Goku have just as easy a time against him as against his base form (hell, I even found the battle against Base Demigra and Trunks far more challenging than fighting Super Demigra), but his array of fairly annoying abilities would be enough to compensate a power disadvantage during the climax and if anything, would make it far more interesting. Can't stretch it out much further beyond him being more a caricature than character and an utter waste.

1/10. Mira and Towa should've just remained the primary antagonists as they did in Xenoverse 2.

So, what about Mira ?
 

Captain Cadaver

Zeta Elite
Retired Staff
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
27,967
Mira's concept is pretty interesting as in many ways he can be considered a parallel of Goku, both seeking stronger opponents to satiate their desire for battle. Mira also being made from the DNA of different warriors, whilst a Cell rehash, gives him some greater goal to his character than with Shello. In lacking Goku's DNA, he has an actual reason to feel like he needs to progress rather than just pure narcissism like Cell. Furthermore, his concern and perplexity at the growth of Time Breaker Bardock and the fact he may lack a component Bardock has at least makes Mira a more conflicted and interesting villain than anyone we got after Freeza with the exception of perhaps pre-split Fat Boo and maybe Baby.
However, those good concepts are where the positives end as in terms of execution Mira is a lot of wasted potential. In both Xenoverse games, his role is pretty minimal beyond being a wall for the player in missions only to retreat later. His "death" in Xenoverse 1 was also fairly disserviceable to his character in how he was thrown away until the post-credit scene and in Xenoverse 2, his absorption of Towa through going berserk and the uninspired excuse for a final form make him feel far less like an actual character and just some guy's fanfiction idea (which whilst being in line with the Xenoverse game's appeal, isn't a testament of good writing).
Mira could work well if given his own arc in the anime to fully explore his character, but as that isn't so, the best praise I can give him is he's slightly less poorly written than most other modern DB villains.

3/10
 

GreatSaiyaman123

Super Elite
Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
14,754
Age
22
So i saw on hold Shinden Reborn posts you have/had Boo Arc Kuririn stronger than Pre Rosat SSJs... Why do you think or used to think he got that much stronger after the Cell Games?
 

ahill1

Super Elite
Donor
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
14,402
I dunno if someone has already asked you this (sorry if yes), but have you ever read Lone Wolf and Cub? If so, what did you think about it?

[My cousin has asked me about it, so I'd like to see your analysis on the matter, if you have read it.]
 

Captain Cadaver

Zeta Elite
Retired Staff
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
27,967
GreatSaiyaman123 said:
So i saw on hold Shinden Reborn posts you have/had Boo Arc Kuririn stronger than Pre Rosat SSJs... Why do you think or used to think he got that much stronger after the Cell Games?
Catouttahell made a theory during the Shinden era to suggest that Kuririn could've kept training after the Cell Games and I like to keep the humans as relevant as possible. With FnF proving Namek Freeza >> Pre-ToP Kuririn, however, I wouldn't place him above 50% Freeza even going by that theory.

ahill1 said:
I dunno if someone has already asked you this (sorry if yes), but have you ever read Lone Wolf and Cub? If so, what did you think about it?
[My cousin has asked me about it, so I'd like to see your analysis on the matter, if you have read it.]
Lone Wolf and Cub is possibly the best manga I've ever read, or at least tied with Ashita no Joe in that regard. Whilst it does seem episodic for the most part, which is usually a flaw to most series, it works here due to the additional aspects it offers. The constant changing of locations keeps things fresh and the detail of world building through the historical knowledge and depth of displaying Edo Era Japan is superb. This also sells you on the strength of the characterisation, with it being one of the few series to get away with having primarily a bunch of honour bound characters in it's cast. The importance of one's honour over one's life was an integral part of Edo society and this series sells it with such actions as Itto not releasing the incriminating evidence he has on Retsudo or Retsudo not wanting to kill Itto by cheap methods. The attention given to minor characters in each chapter is also well done as well, with many chapters focusing on a character who will only be seen during this chapter or the several after and Itto and Daigoro being sidelined, helping convince you that the story is indeed one in a wide world and not so self contained. The amount of variety in these episodic characters is also vast, from honourable samurai and devout religious figures to vengeful prostitutes and assassins. Each character is given enough screentime and focus that we can get a good grasp on their personality and how they evolve over their short course in the story. It says a lot when most episodic characters in this series are more developed than the entire cast of most second rate Shonen.
On the subject of characters, the main characters in this series are some of the most layered in any series. Itto, for example is a Bushido bound warrior and killer, whilst also being a loving father, devout in staying to his path and overall a man who speaks more with actions than words with the interest of others in mind. Daigoro, whilst a young boy, is convincingly written as a fighter who's made his decision to journey with his father on a path of death and is surprisingly badass in some scenes. Retsudo, whilst usually a faraway, looming threat, is far from your typical villain. His pain for the loss of his family members at Itto's blade is always genuine and his desire to propel the Ura-Yagyu into power is very engaging. There's also the character Abe no Kaii, who falls under the schemer archetype. However, his backstory, care for his subordinates and the execution of his plans to achieve power make for perhaps the most engaging parts of the manga I've read yet.

I have yet to read all of the manga, since the numbering of volumes online compared to the Dark Horse re-releases is different enough that I'd only stay on track by buying all of the latter physically, but I can say that with it's world building, characters and as an overall experience, it earns it's hype as one of the greatest manga in history.

9/10
 

Captain Cadaver

Zeta Elite
Retired Staff
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
27,967
Can be good when they're doing genuine critiques of a movie, but lose credibility whenever they add bonus rounds that make a movie's sin count far greater than need be (eg. offering a bonus round that places RotS' sin count above both other Star Wars prequels when it's pretty obvious AotC deserves the most sins). I'd still say they tend to be more correct about their critique than the haters of Cinemasins who go out of their way to nitpick about minor aspects of their channel and are still overall one of the best 1,000,000+ subscriber channels on Youtube.
 

Keedounan

Elite
Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2016
Messages
5,276
Age
27
Would you say that the best thing about FighterZ's story mode (which is otherwise extremely lackluster even by DB videogames' standards) is the characters' dynamics ?
 

Captain Cadaver

Zeta Elite
Retired Staff
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
27,967
Easily. All the ways in which characters interact with each other seem very natural and offer great dynamics. It can get a bit overly meta/self aware at times to the point of losing consistency (eg. even Nappa ragging on about Yamcha being worthless) or characters' intelligence being nerfed for the sake of a funny scene (Nappa trash talking Goku despite him having humiliated Nappa and broken his back, Cell believing he can go up against Ultimate Gohan, etc.) but they're otherwise the main appeal of the game, other than the original gameplay and music DLC for the limited edition, of course.
 

Captain Cadaver

Zeta Elite
Retired Staff
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
27,967
Honestly not sure about major overhauls, seeing as how a DB game story that's attempting to not be contradictive in terms of timeline placement is hard to write for and with the idea they were given, the staff did a somewhat decent job with things such as the waves acting as power equalisation. At the very least, I'd remove #21's fan service Majin form seeing as how it's completely unnecessary and ruin's any originality her design had, or at least make it so that during the personality split in the #21 Arc, her good self retains her scientist appearance. I'd also remove Nappa from the scene where Yamcha gets roasted by Goku, Cell and Freeza since trying to convince anyone that Yamcha is weaker than Nappa is ridiculous.
 

Keedounan

Elite
Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2016
Messages
5,276
Age
27
How would you rate this moment ?

yamchad_nappa.jpg
 
Top