Since the bandwagon for this has appeared...

Papasmurf

Zeta Elite
Legend
Member
Joined
May 30, 2015
Messages
30,975
I just completed the Lood Planet chapters, can you comment on them when you have the time? I want some feedback before I go on to the Desert Planet and M2 to finalize the direction I intend to take with Pan's character and then write accordingly.
 

Captain Cadaver

Zeta Elite
Retired Staff
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
27,967
Batman Brave and the Bold can be argued for doing all of those, just as good if not better.:panties
Brave and the Bold leans way too skewered towards the lighthearted side of tones, with its plot essentially being wanking Batman to the Nth degree more so than most post-Flashpoint comics (eg. him beating up Darkseid in a melee brawl) :ladd.
 

Captain Cadaver

Zeta Elite
Retired Staff
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
27,967
I just completed the Lood Planet chapters, can you comment on them when you have the time? I want some feedback before I go on to the Desert Planet and M2 to finalize the direction I intend to take with Pan's character and then write accordingly.
I'll do so when I can, though I've been busy lately and getting through fairly long chapters can be quite the difficult task time-wise.
 

Pocket-Gog~

Super Elite
Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2017
Messages
11,136
Age
7
Brave and the Bold leans way too skewered towards the lighthearted side of tones, with its plot essentially being wanking Batman to the Nth degree more so than most post-Flashpoint comics (eg. him beating up Darkseid in a melee brawl) :ladd.
Like the Adam West Batman stuff? Brave and the Bold absolutely relishes in the entire ridiculousness of the comics medium and builds up a sort of Adam West extended universe. Its a love letter to the comics.
 

Captain Cadaver

Zeta Elite
Retired Staff
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
27,967
@Pocket-Gog~ Yes, it's very much a love letter to 60s Batman, and that's the problem. Even though the ludicrous aspects of Batman stories and that era are integral parts of his history, it isn't the main appeal of Batman as a character and concept; the gothic horror and dark elements of his character and role as a detective are far more integral, with the goofier parts being more of an occasional balancing tool to avoid Snyder tier edge. This is why BTAS does a better job at balancing tones than BATB, which is far more skewered in one direction.

@Ultimate Cell I only have first-hand experience with the XS, so that's all I can comment on personally. It overall has the same main attributes as the previous generation for both but enhanced, and with the advantages the XB1 already had over PS4 being far more beneficial to me (automatic cloud storage, better app optimisation, etc.) it seems most likely XS is better as a multi-purpose console whereas PS5 probably exceeds in gameplay.

Both virgin consoles are objectively inferior to the PChad though :panties.

@GreatSaiyaman123 It's pretty lazy and contrived, though the fact there's at least some established limits and counters with it such as Spirit Fission countering Moro's absorption without a lazy contradiction or Vegeta having to train to utilise Spirit Fission. It at least doesn't have some bullshit like love acting as pure plot armour, making it still more tolerable and interesting than something like the Harry Potter franchise or a lot of modern YA fiction and light novels.
 

GreatSaiyaman123

Super Elite
Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
14,756
Age
22
Since you’ve been gaslighted, any changes on your ranking of the original trilogy? The original rating you gave me was probably lost on the forum change anyway :troll

Would you say Spider-Man 1 is the superior of the trilogy now?
 

Captain Cadaver

Zeta Elite
Retired Staff
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
27,967
Out of 10, or compared to the prequels? In either case:

ANH - 7/10
ESB - 7.5/10
RotJ - 8/10

Ranking all the original 6: 3 > 1 > 6 > 2 > 5 > 4

For the Raimi trilogy, that's correct. 2's problems are too plot-breaking to ignore, and 3 has some heavy structural problems and cheap plot devices. Meanwhile, the biggest flaws in the first film are ultimately some nitpicks on the campy tone, which is very much a stylistic choice in paying homage to the older Spider-Man comics.
 

GreatSaiyaman123

Super Elite
Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
14,756
Age
22
I meant Spider-Man’s original trilogy, not the Star Wars one. Should’ve made it clearer…

But since you posted your SW… RotJ is the best now? TPM is the second best? AotC is > ANH and Empire? What’s going on CC:sponge

May the 4th be with you, by the way :gay
 

Captain Cadaver

Zeta Elite
Retired Staff
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
27,967
In that case:

Spider-Man - 7/10
Spider-Man 2 and 3 - 4/10

Yes, out of the original trilogy at least. Pretty much all the major criticisms of RotJ lack much substance. The complaint of Luke's plan isn't really that valid when considering his alternatives had far less chance of success (eg. the common idea of "why didn't he rush in with a lightsaber?" is pretty stupid in a confined space with many people armed with blasters and explosives especially with allies nearby) and the gripe people had with the Ewoks was always a poor complaint. The only genuine flaw with it is Han suddenly getting promoted to general, which is still less of one than the Empire just letting Han and Leia chill a while on Cloud City in ESB or the deus ex machina of Leia's force sensing activating when Luke needed it to. Sure, you can say Han and Leia could be given more to do, but there's not really much that could be added on to their development after Empire and we at least got Chewbacca and C-3PO playing a more important role than before.
On top of that, RotJ has the most meaningful parts of the OT both on their own and with the wider context of the prequels as it explores the greyed morality ESB alluded to when it came to Vader or Luke's path, which acts as the core of the film.

For TPM, Style Is Substance's video provides a good idea why it's risen so far up the ranks, but the short answer would include having the best world building of the 6, having some very interesting narrative and thematic parallels between characters (eg. Padme hiding herself in plain sight through a body double mirroring Sidious doing the same as a senator soon to be The Senate as well as how it ties together the saga in a way that adds credence to Lucas' poetry line in how it allowed for RotJ to truly bring the story full circle.
AotC is of a similar position with superior world building to the OT through its use of politics, very interesting narrative parallels that enhance both itself and ESB and introducing some interesting and underrated characters such as Dooku and the exploration of Anakin's dark descent. I'd even argue that its romance plot, when analysed with full context, is actually far more interesting than that between Han and Leia in ESB, which is a fairly standard one (despite being executed well).
 

Papasmurf

Zeta Elite
Legend
Member
Joined
May 30, 2015
Messages
30,975
How much better do you think Part 2 Naruto would have been if Pain wasn't so full of faggotry and only revived Jiraiya and/or Kakashi, Itachi was brainwashed through Danzo's Kotoamatsukami to commit the atrocities he did, Obito was infused with a Black Zetsu-like entity to make him follow Madara's will (and Black Zetsu himself wasn't a poor man's Bakura/Zorc ripoff in his relation with Kaguya :troll ), Juubito was defeated through Madara's will regaining control when he was about to lose to Naruto and Sasuke (forcing him to resurrect Madara without him being talk no jutsu'd first and eliminating that royal "coolest guy" cringe), and Kaguya's resurrection was an unintended consequence of Juubidara being too badly wounded to keep the Juubi inside him in check?

As icing on the cake, let's say Studio Pierrot and Shueisha also don't milk the series with Burrito.
 
Last edited:

Captain Cadaver

Zeta Elite
Retired Staff
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
27,967
How much better do you think Part 2 Naruto would have been if Pain wasn't so full of faggotry and only revived Jiraiya and/or Kakashi,
Seems a bit difficult to pull off when there'd be no reason for him to only revive 1 or 2 people unless the Rinnegan's power was far more limited. In the case of the latter, it'd make the Pain Arc a fair bit better (even if still a poor man's version of most of DBZ's arcs), though it would probably be easier to just write out Pain's revival powers in general.
Itachi was brainwashed through Danzo's Kotoamatsukami to commit the atrocities he did,
Removing almost all his character agency could end up being as bad as having nonsensical motivations, so it'd be a difficult route to write well, particularly with him not reaching out to inform Sasuke very early on (assuming the mind control broke soon after and he wasn't just Danzo's puppet throughout, which would cause even more problems). In order to make this rewrite a vast improvement, it'd have to be established that the guilt he felt gave him a sense of self-loathing and disgust for his weakness and have him set Sasuke up to kill him as a form of repentance, as well as his motivation for joining Akatsuki being to take down Danzo. Itachi's characterisation would still end up being generic, but better than a contradictive mess.
Obito was infused with a Black Zetsu-like entity to make him follow Madara's will
Again, difficult to pull off mind control well, not to mention getting a bit repetitive if two major villains were GASLIGHTED by jutsu. It would be better to stick to him having agency and being corrupted by his own sufferings, but with the focus being far more heavily on the perfect illusion aspect of his plan than just "muh Rin".
Juubito was defeated through Madara's will regaining control when he was about to lose to Naruto and Sasuke (forcing him to resurrect Madara without him being talk no jutsu'd first and eliminating that royal "coolest guy" cringe),
If we had to do this without Obito's agency being removed entirely, I could see the idea of Zetsu latching onto him and reviving Madara through some jutsu working if fleshed out, or having Madara remain a decrepit husk throughout most of the war with Zetsu gathering chakra to restore him. Still pretty generic, but better than what we got.
Either way, the "Obito was the coolest guy!" speech can be entirely removed regardless of how you rewrite it, since it does nothing but destroy Naruto's characterisation.
and Kaguya's resurrection was an unintended consequence of Juubidara being too badly wounded to keep the Juubi inside him in check?
That'd be slightly better, though it would probably be best to just remove Kaguya's active role in the plot entirely with how she just came in at the eleventh hour with only one statement to act as a poor attempt at foreshadowing.

Overall, it'd most likely be a step above something like Part 2 OP, though still likely no more than average at best with the many other problems within Part 2 Naruto (elemental release training being brought in too late, the Sai Arc being complete filler, Neji's "flawed" belief being proven right, etc.).

As icing on the cake, let's say Studio Pierrot and Shueisha also don't milk the series with Burrito.
That's something everyone can agree would be a vast improvement for the franchise's legacy as a whole :galu.
 

Papasmurf

Zeta Elite
Legend
Member
Joined
May 30, 2015
Messages
30,975
How would you write Obito's backstory prior to his fake death on the bridge to explain why his suffering was so profound that a medic-nin like Rin being killed drove him over the edge? I would have an additional flashback showing that he was routinely abused for being an orphan and a disgrace to the Uchiha name back when he was a poor ninja, and that extremists like Danzo made sure he was always given poor accommodations and only assigned to Minato's team so he could be GASLIGHTED into controlling the Kyuubi inside Kushina should he ever unlock the Sharingan, and that Danzo killed his parents to get their Sharingan or something (all things Madara would reveal to him and back up with proof).

To make his nonsensical decision to spare Kakashi despite not knowing about Rin being Isobu's Jinchuriki at the time make more sense as well, I would maybe have Minato arrive on the scene and barely manage to save Kakashi from the rampaging Obito, allowing Minato to later realize that both the masked man who attacked Konoha and the guy that killed the Hidden Mist ninjas were one and the same during the war (making Obito's role as Naruto and Minato's nemesis more pronounced).
 
Last edited:

Captain Cadaver

Zeta Elite
Retired Staff
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
27,967
That version probably sounds like the best route for Obito, particularly with Minato being given some part in his redemption instead of just being shafted in the war despite both his hype and importance to characters like Naruto, Obito and Kakashi.
 

Captain Cadaver

Zeta Elite
Retired Staff
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
27,967
Two people who are both socially inept for different reasons (Anakin's Jedi upbringing + Padme making it apparent she was too consumed by politics for any sort of proper romantic interest since she was 12) making the mistake of putting their emotions first in a match that'll end in tragedy with subtle foreshadowing (Anakin's "I can't breathe" line being foreshadowing for George Floyd him becoming Darth Vader) >> Princess falls for bad boy.
 

Ultimate Cell

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
2,870
Two people who are both socially inept for different reasons (Anakin's Jedi upbringing + Padme making it apparent she was too consumed by politics for any sort of proper romantic interest since she was 12) making the mistake of putting their emotions first in a match that'll end in tragedy with subtle foreshadowing (Anakin's "I can't breathe" line being foreshadowing for George Floyd him becoming Darth Vader) >> Princess falls for bad boy.
So is the dark side fentalyn :troll
 

Captain Cadaver

Zeta Elite
Retired Staff
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
27,967
Supplementary material talks about how the dark side creates a high for the user from how addicting the UNLIMITED POWER is (eg. why Palpatine couldn't notice Vader's turn or stop him being yeeted into the reactor), so honestly not far off :ladd.
 
Top