So Broly SSJ is> UI Goku (ToP)?

[SIAD]

Many here mention that it is stated in the novel. However, I can't find it. If so, Vegeta still treats UI Goku (ToP) as a great power. Whereas he was impressed that Moro defeated UI Goku (although we actually know it was UI Sign Goku). Vegeta didn't know that Goku went to train with Merus. If Vegeta SSJBE (Post Yadart Power Unlock) were tens or hundreds of times stronger than UI Goku (ToP), don't think it would have been unnecessary for Vegeta to stay longer on Planet Yadart, to learn more techniques, when could he kill Moro in an instant, due to the gigantic difference in power? I think at the very least UI Goku (ToP) should be comfortably superior to Goku PSSJB (Post Merus). Maybe if the SSJBE Multiplier was tremendously higher than the PSSJB it might make sense. Personally I have Broly SSJ (Vs Gogeta Base) a little stronger than God Toppo. What do you think?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

@Pyro you were the first to came up with SSJ Broly > UI Goku back on Neo. What you think of this?

 

[SIAD]

@Pyro

 

[SSJ2]

@Pyro

 

[Pyro]

I'm going to need some more specifics, like how exactly Vegeta regards UI Goku and if he really didn't know Goku trained for the Moro fight. Just looking at the SC I don't see any surprise or commending from Vegeta regarding Moro beating UI Goku, but it could be something that didn't really qualify.

 

[SIAD]

I'm going to need some more specifics, like how exactly Vegeta regards UI Goku and if he really didn't know Goku trained for the Moro fight. Just looking at the SC I don't see any surprise or commending from Vegeta regarding Moro beating UI Goku, but it could be something that didn't really qualify.

@GreatSaiyaman123
@SSJ2
@Pyro

The issue is that Vegeta by unlocking his power with the Pibala, still needed to develop the new abilities on Planet Yadart to defeat Moro.

So I think that maybe if Vegeta SSJBE was tens of times stronger than UI Goku (ToP), he would not have bothered to develop the new techniques and would have tried to kill Moro immediately and depending on his tremendous difference in power.

The other question I have is, Will Vegeta (Post Yadart) be much stronger than Goku (Post Merus) in equal ways?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Vegeta had no idea how strong Moro would get, and he needed a way to counter his absorption magic. He also would like to get as strong as possible too.

I think SSJB Goku and SSJB Vegeta could go either way. It all depends on how strong you thin Goku and Saganbo are compared to Jiren.

 

[SIAD]

Vegeta had no idea how strong Moro would get, and he needed a way to counter his absorption magic. He also would like to get as strong as possible too.

I think SSJB Goku and SSJB Vegeta could go either way. It all depends on how strong you thin Goku and Saganbo are compared to Jiren.

A good question would be if Vegeta was able to sense UI Ki?

If so, I have no problem with having Super Sabango> Jiren.

But in case Vegeta cannot feel the UI, I see it difficult, since logically Vegeta felt the power of Goku PSSJB (Post Merus) and in case Vegeta cannot feel the UI, he still assumed that he got it and even lost against Moro.

Therefore Vegeta (Post Yadart) knows that UI Goku (Post Merus) is stronger than Goku PSSJB (Post Merus), but what I don't know is if Vegeta could feel UI's Ki, since if he did, he would know that its UI form became stronger.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Base Vegeta could sense UI Sign Goku and Moro fighting from Yardrat, so he should definitely be capable of sensing UI Goku.

 

[SIAD]

Base Vegeta could sense UI Sign Goku and Moro fighting from Yardrat, so he should definitely be capable of sensing UI Goku.

So: Super Saganbo > Jiren (Beyond Limits)?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

So: Super Saganbo > Jiren (Beyond Limits)?

Probably. That or Saganbo is very durable.

 

[SIAD]

@GreatSaiyaman123 @SSJ2 @Pyro

There is the big question, the narrator was referring to that Broly SSJ was invincible, after doing the ignition after having defeated Freeza?

Because if it is before that ignition, it would not make any sense that it was superior to UI Goku (ToP), since it would mean that Goku SSJB, Vegeta SSJB and Golden Freeza would not be tremendously inferior to Jiren (Beyond Limits) and clearly that is not the case.

It could be a simple exaggeration that statement by the narrator, as when in the Manga, the narrator comments that after the fight against Broly, Goku and Vegeta ended up being stronger than ever and we know that it is illogical that Goku PSSJB (Post Broly )> UI Goku (ToP).

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Broly doesn’t power up though. He just flares his aura and flies away.

 

[Pyro]

I actually see a bit of a problem now. Freeza trained and got a lot stronger, we know that. It was stated he was strong enough to stagger SSJ Broly and even make Broly dodge some of his hits. So the two really couldn't be too far apart even with Freeza's durability as a factor. But then why wouldn't Freeza just kill Goku and Vegeta himself instead of relying on an untested Broly?

I suppose it could be argued he couldn't handle their stronger modes, though.

SSJ Broly >> SSBE Vegeta & PSPSSB Goku > Golden Freeza >>> PSSB Goku & Vegeta

 

[SIAD]

I actually see a bit of a problem now. Freeza trained and got a lot stronger, we know that. It was stated he was strong enough to stagger SSJ Broly and even make Broly dodge some of his hits. So the two really couldn't be too far apart even with Freeza's durability as a factor. But then why wouldn't Freeza just kill Goku and Vegeta himself instead of relying on an untested Broly?

I suppose it could be argued he couldn't handle their stronger modes, though.

SSJ Broly >> SSBE Vegeta & PSPSSB Goku > Golden Freeza >>> PSSB Goku & Vegeta

So Jiren (Beyond Limits) >>>> Broly SSJ> Vegeta SSJBE (ToP) >>>> Goku SSJB Kaioken x20 >>> Golden Freezer >>>>>>>>>> Goku / Vegeta SSJB?

Total Goku only depended on a miracle to get the UI.

 

[Pyro]

Freeza wouldn't know that.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I suppose it could be argued he couldn't handle their stronger modes, though.

Or he just wasn’t willing to risk fighting UI Goku. I really doubt SSJB Goku and Vegeta could’ve lasted much longer than they did against Broly.

 

[SIAD]

Or he just wasn’t willing to risk fighting UI Goku. I really doubt SSJB Goku and Vegeta could’ve lasted much longer than they did against Broly.

Do you think then that UI Goku (ToP)> Broly SSJ> Vegeta SSJBE (ToP)?

As a separate issue, Goku PSSJB (Post Moro) is not yet in the UI Goku (ToP) league, as Gohan and Piccolo still treat the UI Sign Goku (Suppressed against Moro) as a power from another league compared to their PSSJB. and that's before he knew how powerful he had become.

 

[SIAD]

I was thinking that surely Broly SSJ got a lot stronger while fighting Frieza and maybe surpassed UI Goku (ToP).

While they were fighting Goku PSSJB against Super Sabango, Gohan and Piccolo were still talking about the UI as if it were from another league. Therefore, Goku PSSJB (Post Merus) still did not reach the level of UI Goku (ToP).

Surely Vegeta (Post Yadart) was >>>>>> Goku (Post Merus) in equal forms.

What do you think?