Some kewl counters to Gotenks arguments

[kriss-]

Gotenks said he was strong because he was fast. That's an incorrect relation.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Piccolo said Gotenks was strong because his Chi was incredible. Piccolo asked to see how his speed went along with his Chi.

Gotenks proceeds to show off his speed. Gotenks says Piccolo should be able to tell by his speed that he can handle Boo. It was what Piccolo wanted to see.

Where is this shown to be an incorrect assessment? Page # please.

 

[kriss-]

Piccolo never said he was strong. Piccolo began to test him out. The tests were inconclusive because Gotenks took off and determined he was as strong as he was fast. There are contradictory scenarios that disregard this.

I'm not buying it.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Piccolo never said he was strong

Mike posted the statement on this page.

The tests were inconclusive because Gotenks took off and determined he was as strong as he was fast.

No, they weren't. Gotenks moved far faster than Piccolo could ever hope to keep up with. If anything, he went well beyond what Piccolo was expecting. Piccolo can't properly test someone many times stronger than himself, anyway.

I'm not buying it.

You don't need to. Piccolo says his Chi is incredible and wants to know if his speed is as well. Gotenks showed an incredible speed feat. That's it.

 

[kriss-]

He said his Ki was stupendous, that doesn't mean its a comparison to Boo at all. It should also be expected that Piccolo couldn't keep up with him, he's far weaker then even the weakest Super Saiyan, Teen Gohan. So that's not a reflection of any determination either.

Still not buying it.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

If it's to be expected, why do you keep putting so much emphasis on the idea of Piccolo testing him?

Bruh, this is the same Piccolo that quickly said Base Gotenks could not handle Boo. You've basically given no reason why he'd omit this fact if it still applied to Super Saiyan Gotenks. Instead, he just wanted to see his speed.

Super Saiyan Gotenks is stronger or comparable to Boo. If he wasn't, then he would've been told this upfront like Base Gotenks was.

 

[kriss-]

It's obviously a test. Gotenks is a work in progress at this point. Piccolo asked Gotenks not to fly off like that after the kids merged into Base Gotenks, so he was still under the impression that he wouldn't react in such a way; hence, there is no need to say he couldn't beat Boo.

So no, I'm still not seeing any concrete evidence here.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

A test for what? To see his speed. He can't test him on his speed, nor does he need to because he never asks to.

"Let me see your speed even though you're weak as fuck to the point where it doesn't matter. I know I said you're really incredible, but it's meaningless."

Is what you're saying in a nutshell. There's no "work in progress" here. Gotenks was going to fight Boo a day later and this was never delayed until Boo became Super Boo. You're not seeing anything because you're too wrapped in your beliefs to see things another way.

 

[kriss-]

Changing the dialogue doesn't help your case, nor does it convince me. And if you do not feel the need to convince me, then you shouldn't feel the need to reply to me.

I countered your silly argument about Piccolo not having to doubt Gotenks's strength to begin with. Now you've taken up some absurd argument at making up dialogue to try and make my viewpoint look silly. To strong for you I guess.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

There was no changing to anything. It's summing up your shitty approach in general.

You don't counter shit, never counter shit, so stop saying that. You sound stupid as fuck at times.

 

[kriss-]

I did counter you in a reasonable fashion and you had nothing to say about it, so I'll assume you have nothing else to add to the discussion.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

You didn't counter anything. You made an assumption that Gotenks is a working progress. Where is this stated?

You also say Gotenks is wrong about his speed correlating with power when the idea of speed was not even brought up by Gotenks to begin with. It was brought up by Piccolo. You can't say a character is wrong without any actual proof behind it. It becomes your opinion at that point.

 

[kriss-]

Piccolo asked to see his speed, the implication here is that he's still working with him to see where he stands. Gotenks said he was fast so he was super strong. This is fallacious. Piccolo had no need to doubt his power, so that argument is rendered invalid. But what else do I expect from Gotenks enthusiasts? As long as it helps your case, any mere implication -no matter how small, is food for you.

And if you want to argue 'statements', two can play at that game. Give me one statement that directly says Gotenks SSj Pre proved to be stronger then Innocent Boo after he merged successfully into a Super Saiyan.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Piccolo asked to see his speed, the implication here is that he's still working with him to see where he stands.

To see how his speed goes along with his incredible power.

Gotenks said he was fast so he was super strong. This is fallacious.

After he was told he was already incredible to begin with. I don't see how you can say someone's opinion on their own power is fallacious. It's almost as if you know them better than themselves.

Piccolo had no need to doubt his power

Which means Gotenks was more than enough to take on Boo as a Super Saiyan. We see him doubt Base Gotenks right off the bat:

Piccolo: “Yo-you idiot! What are you saying?! You don’t know anything about Majin Boo’s fearsomeness! No matter how incredible you may be, at that level there’s still absolutely no way you’d be able to win!”

All of this was absent when he became Super Saiyan, though.

But what else do I expect from Gotenks enthusiasts? As long as it helps your case, any mere implication -no matter how small, is food for you.

A Goku enthusiast should not be calling anyone out on anything.

 

[kriss-]

And his speed and incredible power has never once been stated to reflect or compare against Innocent Boo's, ever.

The burden of proof lies on you.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

The entire point of Gotenks is to fight Boo. Piccolo said Base Gotenks was incredible, but not enough to beat Boo. Piccolo said Super Saiyan Gotenks was incredible, but he wanted to see some of his speed. Notice how he never says Super Saiyan Gotenks can't handle Boo? Notice how Piccolo is never worried about Boo slaughtering Gotenks when he goes to pursue him? Piccolo is only worried about them challenging Boo with limited time in their Fusion. Gotenks was going to fight Boo the following day, as there was never any intention to send him into the rosat.

So there's more than enough to infer that Super Saiyan Gotenks was at a level capable of fighting Boo. There's no evidence implying the contrary.

 

[kriss-]

Piccolo was still working with Gotenks right before he took off. You can argue that he didn't say such and such, but that's not the same as saying Gotenks lived up to his expectations. Furthermore, Piccolo tells Gotenks to train and train whilst still in his Base form, despite Piccolo knowing that Gotenks is capable of turning into a Super Saiyan. He doesn't disregard this either and Goku suggested that Piccolo uses the Rosat in case it isn't enough. We never did see the end result of what could have happened, so my stance is as valid as your own, probably more-so.

 

[ahill1]

You keep ignoring it, but Piccolo said Gotenks' chi is REALLY incredible.

 

[kriss-]

Cool, and how does that related to Innocent Boo?

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Piccolo told Gotenks to train after Base Gotenks got worked, while also saying they're still going to fight Boo a day later. That means the kids were going to fight Boo pretty soon no matter what. If there was so much urgency on the kids lack of power, they would've been in the rosat rather than sleeping on the lookout.

Also, Piccolo can be aware that they can merge as Super Saiyans, but that's not the same as seeing one up close and feeling the power.