SSJ Goku Black (Post Zenkai) vs SSJG Goku

[GreatSaiyaman123]

According to Zamasu, Goku Black's hair became pink because he had surpassed the level of a Super Saiyan God. Does that mean he was weaker than SSJG, despite what his perfomance against Vegeta would imply?

 

[SSJ2]

This is one I'm always indecisive about. There's no statement that implies that Vegeta's senzu bean didn't heal him completely, and we see SSJ Black quickly getting the upper hand on him. But then after Vegeta's RoSaT trip, it wasn't implied that he became much stronger at all and his Blue form was able to dominate even SSJR Black. For this to make sense, SSJ Black would have to be significantly below that level, so he's probably around God level at best. Vegeta was just that inefficient with SSJB.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yeah the way Vegeta could still use god in the defensive against Black doesn't help. It's specifically stated that he's been focused on mastering Blue, plus Goku is still his equal in the ToP despite not training after all this.

CC had a theory about Vegeta losing his Shouki because he knew Black couldn't be beaten with Zamasu backing him up, so he lost to Black because he couldn't keep his cool.

 

[SIAD]

The truth is that I believe that Goku and Vegeta increased their powers in that trip to the Past. If the SSJB had been as unstable as they suggest, it would make more sense for them to simply use the SSJG. We also see how at the end of that Arc Goku and Base Vegeta are much more powerful than Future Trunks Base.

In the series many times we see tremendous increases in power without much training, such as Piccolo went from being very inferior to Majin Boo, to not being a shooting material for the SSJ (Post God). The Humans in the Manga, went from being 100% inferior to Freeza (Namek) to not being entirely insignificant compared to Goku and Base Vegeta in the ToP, just by dodging some blows from Magetta.

 

[SSJ2]

But wasn't Goku only focused on learning the Mafuba? How would his power increase substantially?

 

[SIAD]

But wasn't Goku only focused on learning the Mafuba? How would his power increase substantially?

That's why I say that in the series there are many unjustified increases in power.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

@Super Saiyan what if Black couldn’t hit SSJG Vegeta because of the damage he was receiving from Blue? Plus I think it makes more sense for Black to have Shouki issues here than Vegeta earlier.

 

[SSJ2]

Maybe, but he didn’t need to be healed by Zamasu in their first fight while SSJR. Blue Vegeta couldn’t even keep up with SSJ Black after eating he senzu. I guess we can say that Vegeta was much stronger post RoSaT because he was using Blue with much higher efficiency.

 

[Pyro]

The humans weren't anywhere near Base Saiyan strength in the ToP. According to the Moro arc, they're still bottom bitch tier. SSJ Kid Trunks is stronger than Saganbo originally and there's no evidence Kid Trunks has gotten massively stronger since we last saw him tangling with the Cell Juniors.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Maybe, but he didn’t need to be healed by Zamasu in their first fight while SSJR. Blue Vegeta couldn’t even keep up with SSJ Black after eating he senzu. I guess we can say that Vegeta was much stronger post RoSaT because he was using Blue with much higher efficiency.

Probably. Looking at the fight he could even block hits from Goku Black as a SSJG. Definitely still weaker than Rosé though since he still opted for Blue to attack. What about:

SSJG Vegeta: 90
~ Blue: 112.5

SSJR Black: 100

Maybe PSSJB boosted Goku’s lower forms with the same principle of sealing power? Granted his golden forms still show auras and that’s the same logic MSSJ follows already but idk man.

The humans weren't anywhere near Base Saiyan strength in the ToP. According to the Moro arc, they're still bottom bitch tier. SSJ Kid Trunks is stronger than Saganbo originally and there's no evidence Kid Trunks has gotten massively stronger since we last saw him tangling with the Cell Juniors.

jesse what the fuck are you talking about

 

[SSJ2]

SSJG Vegeta: 90
~ Blue: 112.5

SSJR Black: 100

Why is Blue so weak? He was annihilating Black. That gap is closer to what I'd expect Goku vs Cell to be. And Blue should be far more staggering compared to God. There's no reason for it to be such an unstable transformation if it's only slightly stronger than God, which goes directly against statements about how much more powerful the form is.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

But Black wasn’t even one shot by Vegeta though. Same with Hit, who was around SSJG, in the first tournament.

What bugs me the most here is the fact Black can’t land a single hit on SSJG Vegeta. How’s that?

 

[SSJ2]

But Black wasn’t even one shot by Vegeta though.

It's inferred that Vegeta wasn't trying to kill him right away when Galu told him to get serious when Black/Zamasu were about to fuse. He chose to give him a beating first.