SSj Goku (Cell-Games) vs Blow-Jack

[Fantastische Hure]

Not transformed.

Who wins?

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I think Bojack alone can beat SSjin Gohan (who is > Goku) without the help of his minions. So Bojack wins.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Captain Blow-Jack didn't do anything impressive though IIRC.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I just checked the fight and Gohan didn't fight base Bojack until Bojack transformed. Although based on Gohan feats against Bojack minions, he was struggling against them something that is beneath of Base Bojack IMO.

Base Bojack > Gohan > Goku

 

[Pakl]

Henchmen always seem to do good in the beginning. Look at movie 5.

Anyway Base Bojack should be as strong as the Cell who fought Goku and Gohan so he can win after a hard fight

 

[GSM123]

Bojack waves his hand and everyone in Z dies.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Although based on Gohan feats against Bojack minions, he was struggling against them something that is beneath of Base Bojack IMO.

Fighting on par through teamwork and paralysis techniques =/= Rushing in with pure power.

Also, it's pretty difficult to say if M9 Gohan is as strong as his Cell Games self. After all, Roshi implies Trunks wasn't too far away from him and Vegeta was portrayed as more impressive than both of them in equal forms despite having given up on battle. You could say that training isn't the same as fighting, as shown by him continuing to train as hard as possible in canon for the next 7 years, but the movie seems to treat Vegeta's "I'll never fight again" line very literally with how his character is portrayed prior to the Bojack fight.

Either way, I'd say Goku holds a good chance of winning. Gohan referred to Bojack's Ki as "incredible", but that can be quite vague when it comes to comparison to the norm as Goku used the same term for Reacoom, Butta and Jheese. I wouldn't say Base Bojack needs to be far above CG MSSJ Goku, if at all, and a Shunkan Ido Kamehameha would be something he has no way of countering.

 

[Pakl]

The whole Roshi statement is just bullcrap imo. M9 is based on CG. Base Bojack is also far ahead of Trunks and Vegeta.

Base Bojack obviously beats Goku though

Its pretty obvious that Base Bojack is in par with Cell when he fought Goku and Gohan and Super Bojack is in par with FP Perfect Cell. M9 is based on CG

 

[Fantastische Hure]

How is it obvious? He only defeated Vegeta, which is something Goku could do too.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

The whole Roshi statement is just bullcrap imo. M9 is based on CG. Base Bojack is also far ahead of Trunks and Vegeta.

That still doesn't refute Vegeta being treat as a saviour during his appearance when he should be irrelevant next to Gohan.

Base Bojack obviously beats Goku though
Its pretty obvious that Base Bojack is in par with Cell when he fought Goku and Gohan and Super Bojack is in par with FP Perfect Cell. M9 is based on CG

The Cell that Goku fought would've died from the Shunkan Ido Kamehameha if not for his regeneration. Going by your logic, the same should apply for Bojack.

Movie 3 is based on the Saiyan Arc, yet Tullece is obviously far stronger than Vegeta.
Movie 5 is based on the Freeza Arc, yet 4th form Coola isn't as strong as 50% Freeza.

The "Movie Villain = Canon Villain they're inspired by" argument is far from an absolute.

 

[Pakl]

How is it obvious? He only defeated Vegeta, which is something Goku could do too.

Movie villians have an anime counterpart. M9 is based on the CG. If Super Bojack is likely FP Perfect Cell counterpart, then his base form is the counterpart of the Cell who fought Goku and Gohan

Why making him weaker than that? He is obviously at least that level to make this Gohan's statement valid.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Gohan said he had an incredible Ki, which was already countered before (not by me). Bojack can just as-well be on-par with Goku or even slightly lower.

 

[Pakl]

The whole Roshi statement is just bullcrap imo. M9 is based on CG. Base Bojack is also far ahead of Trunks and Vegeta.

That still doesn't refute Vegeta being treat as a saviour during his appearance when he should be irrelevant next to Gohan.

Base Bojack obviously beats Goku though
Its pretty obvious that Base Bojack is in par with Cell when he fought Goku and Gohan and Super Bojack is in par with FP Perfect Cell. M9 is based on CG

The Cell that Goku fought would've died from the Shunkan Ido Kamehameha if not for his regeneration. Going by your logic, the same should apply for Bojack.

Movie 3 is based on the Saiyan Arc, yet Tullece is obviously far stronger than Vegeta.
Movie 5 is based on the Freeza Arc, yet 4th form Coola isn't as strong as 50% Freeza.

The "Movie Villain = Canon Villain they're inspired by" argument is far from an absolute.

How was he a saviour? He is as strong as his CG self. Gohan is clearly the strongest. Even in the wnd he was able to take on all the henchmen until Bojack kicked him out of SSjin.

Obviously a massively KHH of Goku would vaporize Bojack because of amplification too. Not to mention Cell was caught off guard. That doesnt mean anything. Not that I think that it matters in non canon because Toei neglects this amp. See Vegeta vs Semi Cell for example in the filler when Vegeta tanked his blast but bleeded from a punch


Movie 3 is not based on the Saiyan Saga at all. Its based on the Namek Arc. Thats why Goku is said to be at 30k at first because he surpasses Monster Zarbon the highest power shown at that point. Movie 2 is based on the late Saiyan Arc. Guess how Uiru was protrayed.

Base Coola is based on initial final form Freeza which is why he battles Base Goku.

Its not far from being absolute, its more like you dont know how the movies are compared to the series or how the movie characters stick to the series ones

 

[Pakl]

Gohan said he had an incredible Ki, which was already countered before (not by me). Bojack can just as-well be on-par with Goku or even slightly lower.

But why would he be juat in par with Goku? There is no reason to think so. My stand is more solid because M9 Gohan is based on Cell Games Gohan so his fight with Bojack is based on hia fight with Cell.

Base Bojack is in par with the suppressed Cell who fought Gohan and Super Bojack os based on FP Perfrct Cell..

Base Bojack should be around SSjin Gohan like Cell was.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Except Bojack never fought Gohan until he transformed.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Why making him weaker than that? He is obviously at least that level to make this Gohan's statement valid.

Take into account that Goku also referred to Reacoom, Butta and Jheese as "incredible" when arriving on Namek. Arguing Base Bojack was inferior to Gohan and the latter was just amazed due to the rarity of such a power is highly arguable, especially when Base Bojack's only feat is fighting Vegeta.

How was he a saviour? He is as strong as his CG self. Gohan is clearly the strongest. Even in the wnd he was able to take on all the henchmen until Bojack kicked him out of SSjin.

Yet the movie makes a big deal about him appearing in battle compared to Gohan initially fighting the henchmen. Also, Gohan's performance later in the fight is far different from what it was at the beginning. It's most likely he initially got Toei nerfed before getting boosted back to his canon power.

Obviously a massively KHH of Goku would vaporize Bojack because of amplification too. That doesnt mean anything. Not that I think that it matters in non canon because Toei neglects this amp. See Vegeta vs Semi Cell for example in the filler when Vegeta tanked his blast but bleeded from a punch

How does it not mean anything when Bojack seems as arrogant as Cell and nowhere near as good at sensing Ki would make him even less likely to stop Goku's tactic than Cell was?
Toei amp nerfing is a thing, but means little when that purely applies to movies and filler. When it comes to canon material, they make no changes, thus the Kamehameha amp from a canon version of Goku still stands.

Movie 3 is not based on the Saiyan Saga at all. Its based on the Namek Arc. Thats why Goku is said to be at 30k at first because he surpasses Monster Zarbon the highest power shown at that point. Movie 2 is based on the late Saiyan Arc. Guess how Uiru was protrayed.

So to you, a Saiyan survivor coming to Earth and belittling Goku for his soft nature is closer to the Namek Arc than the Saiyan Arc?

 

[Tapion]

Movie 5 is based on the Freeza Arc, yet 4th form Coola isn't as strong as 50% Freeza.

Nothing suggests this. Cooler knows his brother's true power and said Base Goku after his Zenkai was good enough to defeat Freeza - after Goku overwhelmed him. That suggests Cooler's power and Freeza's are on par, so a foe that can overwhelm him is a foe that can overwhelm Freeza. Goku's line can just as easily suggest Cooler was on par with Freeza, but then further surpassed him upon transforming.

Base Goku >= 100% Freeza ~ 4th State Cooler works.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Nothing suggests this. Cooler knows his brother's true power and said Base Goku after his Zenkai was good enough to defeat Freeza. Goku's line can just as easily suggest Cooler was on par with Freeza, but then surpassed him upon transforming.

Base Goku >= 100% Freeza ~ 4th State Cooler works.

I can see your stance as being viable, though to Pakl with his "Every Movie villain must surpass the previous one" stance obviously preventing him from accepting that, I'm trying to establish some common ground on his logic.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Trying to establish common-ground with pakl is a pointless endeavour. All he wants is for everyone to agree with him.

 

[Pakl]

Why making him weaker than that? He is obviously at least that level to make this Gohan's statement valid.

Take into account that Goku also referred to Reacoom, Butta and Jheese as "incredible" when arriving on Namek. Arguing Base Bojack was inferior to Gohan and the latter was just amazed due to the rarity of such a power is highly arguable, especially when Base Bojack's only feat is fighting Vegeta.

How was he a saviour? He is as strong as his CG self. Gohan is clearly the strongest. Even in the wnd he was able to take on all the henchmen until Bojack kicked him out of SSjin.

Yet the movie makes a big deal about him appearing in battle compared to Gohan initially fighting the henchmen. Also, Gohan's performance later in the fight is far different from what it was at the beginning. It's most likely he initially got Toei nerfed before getting boosted back to his canon power.

Obviously a massively KHH of Goku would vaporize Bojack because of amplification too. That doesnt mean anything. Not that I think that it matters in non canon because Toei neglects this amp. See Vegeta vs Semi Cell for example in the filler when Vegeta tanked his blast but bleeded from a punch

How does it not mean anything when Bojack seems as arrogant as Cell and nowhere near as good at sensing Ki would make him even less likely to stop Goku's tactic than Cell was?
Toei amp nerfing is a thing, but means little when that purely applies to movies and filler. When it comes to canon material, they make no changes, thus the Kamehameha amp from a canon version of Goku still stands.

Movie 3 is not based on the Saiyan Saga at all. Its based on the Namek Arc. Thats why Goku is said to be at 30k at first because he surpasses Monster Zarbon the highest power shown at that point. Movie 2 is based on the late Saiyan Arc. Guess how Uiru was protrayed.

So to you, a Saiyan survivor coming to Earth and belittling Goku for his soft nature is closer to the Namek Arc than the Saiyan Arc?

Then why did not Gohan comment on the henchmen's ki? Why just Bojack? While I agree that what he said doesnt mean much, its still a bettet statement that makes Bojack a threat. Saying he is weaker than Goku is lol worthy especially when Gohan himself was not even that impressed about Goku to begin with. My point couple with how the movie resembles the CG is the better option regardless.

I believe you should look at things from TOEI prespective. A character that enters in the middle of the movie almoat always looks better than before. Its just intentional to build up drama. Look at movie 5 for example about Goku not trashing Coolas men initially but later Piccolo looks more impressive unless you want to say Goku was weaker than Piccolo. They didnt nerf Gohan. If anything, Gohan at first looks less impressive because he didnt want to fight but later got mad. Again the same as the CG. Thats the movies basis after all

Okay, a KHH of Goku would obviously do a serious damage to Bojack of he stands there and take it head on. That doesnt prove anything about Bojack still being comparable to M9/CG Gohan and the Cell who fought him

I fail to see your reason about Tullece. So what if he was a saiyan. Movie 2 is based on the Vegeta arc. Obviously becauss the movie was produced during that time and all the fight scenes. The beam struggle, Gokus level of kaioken x3 and x4.

Movie 3 is based on the Namek arc because its produced and revealed at that time. Gohan has short hair. Goku is 30k+. He could only reach that level during his training in the spaceship which was the Namek arc