SSJB Tiers

[Southern Gothic]

Would someone be so kind as to lay out the various versions of SSJB? I sometimes lose track of conversations when certain abbreviations are used.

SSJB: the initial firm
SSJBE: Vegeta’s transformation
CSSJB: ???
PSSJB: Perfect SSJB??? I think I know what this stands for but I don’t know what it means.

Any insight would help. Also, am I missing any?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

PSSJB is the form Goku and Vegeta attain in the manga. SSJB has shit stamina, so Goku comes up with this to fight Merged Zamasu and Vegeta learns it too right before the ToP. It’s like MSSJ, but for Blue.

C(omplete)SSJB and other names like MSSJB are just fan names people used before the official name was revealed.

 

[SSJ2]

Complete Super Saiyan Blue is a term used directly in the manga.



There's also SSJB Kaioken that Goku uses in the ToP. Essentially the chain goes as following:

SSJBE >>> SSJB Kaioken >> CSSJB >/> SSJB

 

[SSJ2]

​

Just for reference on CSSJB/PSSJB.

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スーパーサイヤじんブルーの完成​

​

完成 can be translated as "completion" or "perfection."

 

[Southern Gothic]

The Broly movie ignored all of this.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

What? Completed SSJ-Blue doesn’t have better stamina than SSJ-Blue, or at-least at first. It was seen as life-threatening IIRC and Goku couldn’t keep it up for long too I think.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

The Broly movie ignored all of this.

That’s because the movies are most likely as AT as you can get in modern DragonBall. I think there were even people who said Tarble wasn’t canon because he wasn’t mentioned in the re-telling written by Toei, but then in the 3rd movie AT wrote Tarble was mentioned once again, so whatever is added in anime or manga AT doesn’t care about I think.

 

[SSJ2]

Yeah CSSJB has terrible stamina. CSSJB allowed Goku to fight at 100% of Blue's power for a short period of time. Regular SSJB was so inefficient that it was never able to utilize 100% of its true power due to power leaking out through the aura. It might be able to be maintained longer than CSSJB but at a fraction of the power output.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

For reference, here’s when Whis uses the term PSSJB:

Ch. 35, pg. 16.4-7
Context: none of Goku’s attacks are working on Jiren
Krillin: “Goku’s attacks aren’t putting a dent in him!!”
[ ]
Krillin: “You think he might have another transformation in store?”
Whis: “No. Because what we’re seeing here is the perfected Super Saiyan Blue. That’s his strongest form for right now.”
Krillin: "For real?!"

As SSJ2 pointed out, it’s

Blue Kaio-Ken is a bit confusing. Despite the name, Goku isn’t using Kaio-Ken here: He just asspulls some power in a way that reminds the others of the Kaio-Ken.

@Fantastische Hure normal SSJB had such bad stamina Vegeta became as weak as a SSJ1 by using it for a couple minutes. Goku’s power against Zamasu was steady throughout, only threatening to fall apart because Goku wasn’t used to it yet. From the ToP onwards this was never an issue again.

 

[Papasmurf]

So why did Galu never think to plug the aura for SSJ3?

 

[SSJ2]

Blue Kaio-Ken is a bit confusing. Despite the name, Goku isn’t using Kaio-Ken here: He just asspulls some power in a way that reminds the others of the Kaio-Ken.

Would've been better if he actually used Kaioken. How the fuck can you just become stronger if you feel like it? Private lessons with Hakaishin Roshi maybe.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Would've been better if he actually used Kaioken. How the fuck can you just become stronger if you feel like it?

And if you’re a lesser-being than Kame-sen’nin, no worries you can just wish for it.

 

[Southern Gothic]

That’s because the movies are most likely as AT as you can get in modern DragonBall. I think there were even people who said Tarble wasn’t canon because he wasn’t mentioned in the re-telling written by Toei, but then in the 3rd movie AT wrote Tarble was mentioned once again, so whatever is added in anime or manga AT doesn’t care about I think.

That's pretty much what I thought. He writes the movies directly himself and I figured he just didn't want to deal with anything outside of what he established in the other movies. He waved away three forms at least and just stuck with SSJ, SSJG and SSJB. I expect the next movie to do the same. Especially now that Ultra Ego is in the mix.

 

[Southern Gothic]

So am I understanding it correctly that when Goku uses Kaioken in the ToP/U6 it isn't actually Kaioken despite him yelling it out or is that a discrepancy between the anime and manga?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

So am I understanding it correctly that when Goku uses Kaioken in the ToP/U6 it isn't actually Kaioken despite him yelling it out or is that a discrepancy between the anime and manga?

It’s a discrepancy between the anime and the manga.

 

[SSJ2]

In the anime it is legitimately Kaioken. In the manga he just yells that he needs more power or something to that effect and the aura is still blue.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

And then the gang says this:

Ch. 39, pg. 22.1-3
Context: the Universe 7 bench observes Goku powering up
Beerus: “L-look! Goku’s power just shot up. What’s he up to?”
Whis: “You could say he’s getting a power up? Drawing deep from his reserves for a temporary boost, regardless of what damage that might do.”
Tenshinhan: “Is it the same principle as Kaio-Ken…?”
Krillin: “The Kaio-Ken? Now, after all this time? Will it even work?”

Sounds like Toyotaro or V-Jump wanted to pay lip service to the anime.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Super Saiyan Blue in general is a hilarious form.

There was the whole weakness from the Champa arc (Manga) where Vegeta couldn't even use 10% of its power simply because he already transformed into Blue earlier. Whis said it can only be used a few times in a day. By the next arc, this weakness appears to be gone.

 

[SSJ2]

Super Saiyan Blue in general is a hilarious form.

There was the whole weakness from the Champa arc (Manga) where Vegeta couldn't even use 10% of its power simply because he already transformed into Blue earlier. Whis said it can only be used a few times in a day. By the next arc, this weakness appears to be gone.

I'd argue that it became more ridiculous in the next arc. SSJB Vegeta was somehow getting his shit kicked in by SSJ Black despite freshly eating a senzu bean. Meanwhile Black wasn't suggested to surpass SSJG until he attained SSJR

 

[Southern Gothic]

No wonder they're moving on from Blue. I had no idea it was all this dysfunctional.