SSJBE vs CSSJB

[SSJ2]

How big of a gap do you think there is between the forms?

 

[Pyro]

20x for me.

PSSB < Kale < Kefla < Pseudo KKx20 PSSB < SSBE

I think Kefla has to necessitate some kind of gap.

 

[SSJ2]

Damn that much? I feel like it wasn't presented as being that large in the Moro arc.

 

[SIAD]

If it's the Anime, it should be Vegeta SSJBE (FP) >>> God Toppo >> Vegeta SSJBE (Initial) = Goku SSJB Kaioken x20.

I'm from the idea that Goku caught up with Vegeta in equal ways, when Goku transformed into SSJB against Kefla SSJ.

Regarding the Manga:

Vegeta SSJBE (ToP) >> Goku PSSJB Pseudo Kaioken >> Ultimate Gohan (End of ToP)> = Kefla SSJ> = Jiren (Power up against Jiren) >>> Jiren (Initial) >> Combined power of Goku PSSJB (ToP) + Hit (ToP) >>> Goku PSSJB (ToP) = Hit (ToP).

 

[Pyro]

Kefla is really the one that pushes the multiplier up. She's heavily implied by Vados to surpass the power Jiren showed when he effortlessly curbstomped Hit and Goku, and confirmed to be stronger than Kale, who is also heavily implied if not outright shown to be superior to Goku and Freeza. If you follow Base fusion > strongest fusee power, that would put Base Kefla stronger than PSSB Goku, and you'd follow with the Super Saiyan boost, which would further enlarge the multiplier for Goku's pseudo Kaio-ken and Vegeta's Blue Evolved, which I'm not inclined to do; or you give Kefla a minuscule Super Saiyan boost; or you don't have Base Kefla stronger than BSSJ Kale, which could work if you use initial BSSJ Kale and not her limits reached state.

I like 20x just because it's a good-sized multiplier to give Kefla some titty breathing room, and it's not so absurd like 50x that we've never seen outside of one throwaway movie. It could be x10 or 30x or whatever, but 20x seems fine to me. Anything under, I dunno, 5x is really restrictive for Jiren, Kale, and Kefla.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I actually work with a 3-4x boost and it works pretty well.

PSSJB Goku/Vegeta: 125
LSSJ Kale: 150
SSJ Kefla: 300
PSSJB Goku (Pseudo Kaio-Ken): 375
SSJBE Vegeta: 500

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

I don't ever recall Kefla being so strong in the DBS manga.

 

[Pyro]

She scales off Kale and is said by Vados to likely be the strongest combatant in play, despite Jiren casually wasting PSSB Goku and Hit.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

She scales off Kale and is said by Vados to likely be the strongest combatant in play, despite Jiren casually wasting PSSB Goku and Hit.

Then she got completely humiliated by regular ass Gohan and admitted if she couldn't even beat him than Universe 6 deserved to lose as I recall. I don't even see Kale herself being particularly strong in relation to Universe 7 as well

 

[Pyro]

Then she got completely humiliated by regular ass Gohan and admitted if she couldn't even beat him than Universe 6 deserved to lose as I recall. I don't even see Kale herself being particularly strong in relation to Universe 7 as well

Gohan got stronger during the fight with Kefla, stated by Piccolo, and they stalemated. Kefla never got humiliated. Kale was already strong enough that Goku felt using Blue was best rather than his lower Super Saiyan forms or even God, when he was perfectly content fighting Dyspo and Toppo with Super Saiyan 2 earlier before he got pissed. Kale broke his guard and powered up where Goku and Freeza looked shocked (Freeza was literally speechless). The implication I got was Kale being a fat monster but nothing too extraordinary.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

Gohan got stronger during the fight with Kefla, stated by Piccolo, and they stalemated. Kefla never got humiliated.

I would call it humiliation when Gohan randomly appears and stalemated/knocks out a fusion who is supposedly stronger than SSJB.

Kale was already strong enough that Goku felt using Blue was best rather than his lower Super Saiyan forms or even God, when he was perfectly content fighting Dyspo and Toppo with Super Saiyan 2 earlier before he got pissed.

Toppo (maybe not Dypso, because I don't believe he ever really fought) were both inconsistently portrayed, however Toppo was shown to be solidly on SSJB tier when he wasn't playing around.

Kale broke his guard and powered up where Goku and Freeza looked shocked (Freeza was literally speechless). The implication I got was Kale being a fat monster but nothing too extraordinary.

Kale's attack on Freeza also left him with some light bruises that he shrugged off literally moments later. After she ran off, I believe he even admitted that he was caught off guard and that's how she got the jump on him. I don't see any indication that Kale, or even Kefla are both solidly above SSJB tier when their performance clearly speaks otherwise. They're both solidly mediocre compared to U7 and U11.

 

[Pyro]

I would call it humiliation when Gohan randomly appears and stalemated/knocks out a fusion who is supposedly stronger than SSJB.

Toppo (maybe not Dypso, because I don't believe he ever really fought) were both inconsistently portrayed, however Toppo was shown to be solidly on SSJB tier when he wasn't playing around.

Kale's attack on Freeza also left him with some light bruises that he shrugged off literally moments later. After she ran off, I believe he even admitted that he was caught off guard and that's how she got the jump on him. I don't see any indication that Kale, or even Kefla are both solidly above SSJB tier when their performance clearly speaks otherwise. They're both solidly mediocre compared to U7 and U11.

OMG you're right. I bow in utter defeat.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Kefla is really the one that pushes the multiplier up. She's heavily implied by Vados to surpass the power Jiren showed when he effortlessly curbstomped Hit and Goku, and confirmed to be stronger than Kale, who is also heavily implied if not outright shown to be superior to Goku and Freeza. If you follow Base fusion > strongest fusee power, that would put Base Kefla stronger than PSSB Goku, and you'd follow with the Super Saiyan boost, which would further enlarge the multiplier for Goku's pseudo Kaio-ken and Vegeta's Blue Evolved, which I'm not inclined to do; or you give Kefla a minuscule Super Saiyan boost; or you don't have Base Kefla stronger than BSSJ Kale, which could work if you use initial BSSJ Kale and not her limits reached state.

I like 20x just because it's a good-sized multiplier to give Kefla some titty breathing room, and it's not so absurd like 50x that we've never seen outside of one throwaway movie. It could be x10 or 30x or whatever, but 20x seems fine to me. Anything under, I dunno, 5x is really restrictive for Jiren, Kale, and Kefla.

I'm thinking Kefla can't be that much stronger KP. Look at the bloat a 20x SSJBE multiplier creates.

PSSJB Goku/Vegeta: 12,500

LSSJ Kale (Peak): 15,000

Kefla: 30,000
~ SSJ: 75,000

Gohan: 75,000

Blue Kaio-Ken Goku: 125,000
SSJBE Vegeta: 250,000

UI Goku (Sign): 500,000
~ Mastered: 1,250,000

FP Jiren: 1,000,000
~ Beyond limits: 1,200,000

Gohan (Moro Saga): 150,000

Saganbo: 300,000

SSJB Goku: 300,000
~ UI Sign: 12,000,000

UI Sign Goku is 10x Jiren? That's crazy dawg. 3-4x is the way to go with the numbers I posted before.

 

[Pyro]

I'm thinking Kefla can't be that much stronger KP. Look at the bloat a 20x SSJBE multiplier creates.

PSSJB Goku/Vegeta: 12,500

LSSJ Kale (Peak): 15,000

Kefla: 30,000
~ SSJ: 75,000

Gohan: 75,000

Blue Kaio-Ken Goku: 125,000
SSJBE Vegeta: 250,000

UI Goku (Sign): 500,000
~ Mastered: 1,250,000

FP Jiren: 1,000,000
~ Beyond limits: 1,200,000

Gohan (Moro Saga): 150,000

Saganbo: 300,000

SSJB Goku: 300,000
~ UI Sign: 12,000,000

UI Sign Goku is 10x Jiren? That's crazy dawg. 3-4x is the way to go with the numbers I posted before.

Wait, you have a problem with Sign being 10x Jiren but not Jiren himself being many times stronger than everybody else? I don't get it.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Wait, you have a problem with Sign being 10x Jiren but not Jiren himself being many times stronger than everybody else? I don't get it.

Why would Jiren being 10x stronger than everyone else be an issue?

 

[Pyro]

Why would Jiren being 10x stronger than everyone else be an issue?

It's not. That's the point.