SSjin 2 Vegeta (Androids Arc) vs Android 16

[Pakl]

Who wins?

 

[Warrior_of_Mite]

Vegeta god stomps

16 < Semi-Perfect Cell < ASSJ Vegeta < MSS Goku < SS2 Vegeta even in the android arc.

 

[Pakl]

Vegeta god stomps

16 < Semi-Perfect Cell < ASSJ Vegeta < MSS Goku < SS2 Vegeta even in the android arc.

This is before he trained in the Rosat.

 

[Yoshi]

I have:

Piccolo: 875
Trunks: 950
Goku: 975
Vegeta: 1,000
Imperfect Initial: 1,200
#18: 1,400
#17: 1,500
Kamiccolo: 1,500
Gekiretsu Kodan: 3,000
Imperfect Post: 4,500
#16: 4,500

And I have SSJ2 at x5 SSJ, so Vegeta would be at 5,000.

Android Saga SSJ2 Vegeta takes this with high difficulty.

 

[Warrior_of_Mite]

Good point but I don't think it matters. How much of a boost do you think SS2 is over SS1? While we mostly are told it is 2x, in practice it is much more. In the anime, Piccolo tells Vegeta he would have to have tripled his strength in order to fight Semi-Perfect Cell. So even if we low balled it and said it was only 2x regular SS, instead of stomping Semi-Perfect Cell, Vegeta has a less of a stomp win or a decent fight. That would still put SS2 Vegeta above 16 by a good margin and that's with a low ball. Vegeta still gets the W. It's just not a as big of a blow out.

 

[Yoshi]

Good point but I don't think it matters. How much of a boost do you think SS2 is over SS1? While we mostly are told it is 2x, in practice it is much more. In the anime, Piccolo tells Vegeta he would have to have tripled his strength in order to fight Semi-Perfect Cell. So even if we low balled it and said it was only 2x regular SS, instead of stomping Semi-Perfect Cell, Vegeta has a less of a stomp win or a decent fight. That would still put SS2 Vegeta above 16 by a good margin and that's with a low ball. Vegeta still gets the W. It's just not a as big of a blow out.

I have:

Oozaru: x10 Base
SSJ: x50 Base
USSJ: x2 SSJ
USSJ2: x3.5 USSJ
SSJ2: x5 SSJ
SSJ3: x10 SSJ2

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

16 stomps. He's twice as strong as Piccolo based on Cell tanking him, while SSJ2 Vegeta would just be double SSJ1 Vegeta.

 

[Warrior_of_Mite]

16 stomps. He's twice as strong as Piccolo based on Cell tanking him, while SSJ2 Vegeta would just be double SSJ1 Vegeta.

There is no way SS2 is only 2x SS1. If that was the case why didn't Goku just use Kaio-Ken with SS and kill Cell when he fought him? In the anime, Piccolo tells Vegeta he would have had to tripled in strength to beat Cell and Vegeta just smiles, implying he got much larger gains than 3x. When Goku mastered SS1 he stated he was far above ASSJ/Super Vegeta. Vegeta then goes back into the HBTC again and still comes out weaker than MSS Goku by a good margin. Despite the multipliers we were told, that one is clearly not true.

 

[Yoshi]

16 stomps. He's twice as strong as Piccolo based on Cell tanking him, while SSJ2 Vegeta would just be double SSJ1 Vegeta.

People overrate #16 and Post Imperfect Cell, but the gap is definitely over x2. Perfect Cell VS Vegeta and even #16 vs Semi Perfect Cell are both closer to a x2 gap than Imperfect Cell over Piccolo is.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

There is no way SS2 is only 2x SS1. If that was the case why didn't Goku just use Kaio-Ken with SS and kill Cell when he fought him? In the anime, Piccolo tells Vegeta he would have had to tripled in strength to beat Cell and Vegeta just smiles, implying he got much larger gains than 3x. When Goku mastered SS1 he stated he was far above ASSJ/Super Vegeta. Vegeta then goes back into the HBTC again and still comes out weaker than MSS Goku by a good margin. Despite the multipliers we were told, that one is clearly not true.

Kaio-Ken was too strainful for Goku to use even with MSSJ. SSJB is the only form with enough Ki control for Goku to stack with Kaio-Ken.

And I’m pretty sure the 3x line is from the english dub.

People overrate #16 and Post Imperfect Cell, but the gap is definitely over x2. Perfect Cell VS Vegeta and even #16 vs Semi Perfect Cell are both closer to a x2 gap than Imperfect Cell over Piccolo is.

I think Cell can be exactly 2x Piccolo. The logic seems to be that 2x is enough to tank anything, unless the attack ends up reaching or surpassing your power. Vegeta’s Final Crash was at least 75% of Recoome and the tank was described in the same was Cell’s was: “He hardly took any damage”. The only difference is that Recoome was bruised.

Semi Cell over 16 and Perfect Cell over Vegeta is a clean 2x. Super Vegeta over FP Semi Cell is less, but not by much since Initial Perfect Cell should be >>> Semi. This forces the 2nd Grade multiplier to be over 2x though, and I’m not sure about that.

 

[Yoshi]

I think Cell can be exactly 2x Piccolo. The logic seems to be that 2x is enough to tank anything, unless the attack ends up reaching or surpassing your power. Vegeta’s Final Crash was at least 75% of Recoome and the tank was described in the same was Cell’s was: “He hardly took any damage”. The only difference is that Recoome was bruised.

Semi Cell over 16 and Perfect Cell over Vegeta is a clean 2x. Super Vegeta over FP Semi Cell is less, but not by much since Initial Perfect Cell should be >>> Semi. This forces the 2nd Grade multiplier to be over 2x though, and I’m not sure about that.

I have Imperfect Cell x3 Piccolo, Perfect Cell x2.5 Vegeta, and Semi Perfect Cell x2 #16.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

I have:
ssj Vegeta (androids arc) = 310
Android 18 = 340
Android 17 and Kamiccolo = 350
Light grenade (high ball) = 450
Imperfect Cell post and Android 16 = 480
ssj2 Vegeta (androids arc) = 620 (x2 multiplier)

I personally don't understand why the Light grenade have to be that far above Piccolo's power, when a single kick coming from him could at least push back Imperfect Cell, while he came out unscratched after receiving a Light grenade.

 

[Yoshi]

I personally don't understand why the Light grenade have to be that far above Piccolo's power, when a single kick coming from him could at least push back Imperfect Cell, while he came out unscratched after receiving a Light grenade.

Cell might have been caught off guard or did not see it coming.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Cell might have been caught off guard or did not see it coming.

He was defenseless at that point. Plus, we've seen characters not seeing coming attacks and receiving no damage.

 

[ahill1]

What do you guys make of SSJG3 Goku in early RoSaT being above initial Semi Cell? Sure the grade 3's multiplier wouldn't be so above SSJ2's.

 

[Papasmurf]

What do you guys make of SSJG3 Goku in early RoSaT being above initial Semi Cell? Sure the grade 3's multiplier wouldn't be so above SSJ2's.

It was stated that Vegeta trained for 2 months before he was able to access Grade 2. I guess it took a similar amount of time for Galu.

 

[ahill1]

It was stated that Vegeta trained for 2 months before he was able to access Grade 2. I guess it took a similar amount of time for Galu.

True, but it seemed from Vegeta gazing at mountains that the training to achieve the further states would be more spiritual and only focused in seeing beyond, hence it's somewhat doubtful the increase until then would be significant.

 

[Papasmurf]

True, but it seemed from Vegeta gazing at mountains that the training to achieve the further states would be more spiritual and only focused in seeing beyond, hence it's somewhat doubtful the increase until then would be significant.

Generally training boosts start bigger and get smaller as time goes on. By the end of the ~year he spent in the RoSaT Goku decided more training wouldn't increase his power at all, and switched it up to relaxing his body. It's the same irl with people who just start out lifting weights or switching to high protein, high vegetable diets - they get bigger returns than people who've worked out for years.

 

[ahill1]

Generally training boosts start bigger and get smaller as time goes on. By the end of the ~year he spent in the RoSaT Goku decided more training wouldn't increase his power at all, and switched it up to relaxing his body. It's the same irl with people who just start out lifting weights or switching to high protein, high vegetable diets - they get bigger returns than people who've worked out for years.

I know, but like I said, Goku's training until achieving the state seemed to be more spiritual, not physically exerting.

 

[Papasmurf]

Gohan said he'd only been meditating like that for the past several days. Before that he presumably trained SSJ Gohan harshly, since when he first accessed SSJ Gohan couldn't even maintain it for 10 seconds.