Super Buu vs Super Gotenks

Goku9001

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I think his fighting just gets sloppy when he's disturbed by someone coming close to or surpassing his power. Dude was definitely losing it and fighting like a retard against Vegetto too, unlike when he was Bootenks and detected Gohan while he was suppressed off the slightest movement.
Could be. I think him being mentally weakened is primarily why he was overwhelmed by Gotenks. Whether that be his battle power dropping, fighting sloppily or him wielding his power poorly, I think the end result remains the same.
 

Natasha Romanoff

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I'm not really saying anything definitive here. My interpretation would be that Piccolo was unsure of who was stronger so he suggested that they were "on par" with each other which suggests a minimal difference between the two. Super Buu acknowledged Gotenks' power but only considered Gohan his superior which leads me to believe that they were equals when taking into account Piccolo's statement.
Piccolo says that Gotenks was at least as strong as Buu, at the least, Gotenks and Buu are equals, if not, Gotenks has the edge. I mean, as you use Super Buu as example, I can also use him as well, he couldn't grasp SSJ Vegetto correctly neither realize that Vegetto was stronger than him until too much time after, the same can be applied/inferred with SSJ3 Gotenks.
Trunks was clearly arrogant and unwilling to admit that Gohan was much stronger than Gotenks so I don't really take the claim seriously. That'd be the same reason why you don't take Buu seriously.
Even though, Trunks is arrogant, in this case his case is credible at some point because he is proving himself right, Goten never says Gohan is much stronger than Gotenks either, he just said he was stronger.

The beatdowns that Gotenks and Gohan gave to Buu were pretty similar:

0301-012 (1).jpg0301-013 (1).jpg0303-007 (1).jpg0303-008 (1).jpg0303-009 (1).jpg

When Gotenks appears, Gohan doesn't act or treat Gotenks as someone that can't deal with Buu neither that it wouldn't be able to defeat:

0305-006.jpg

Hmmm, no, when he is proven right I give him credit; he considered that himself could kill Gohan as Gotenks Buu and is proving himself right during the fight, I give anyone merit when it holds it.
 
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Goku9001

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Piccolo says that Gotenks was at least as strong as Buu, at the least, Gotenks and Buu are equals, if not, Gotenks has the edge. I mean, as you use Super Buu as example, I can also use him as well, he couldn't grasp SSJ Vegetto correctly neither realize that Vegetto was stronger than him until too much time after, the same can be applied/inferred with SSJ3 Gotenks.

Even though, Trunks is arrogant, in this case his case is credible at some point because he is proving himself right, Goten never says Gohan is much stronger than Gotenks either, he just said he was stronger.

The beatdowns that Gotenks and Gohan gave to Buu were pretty similar:


When Gotenks appears, Gohan doesn't act or treat Gotenks as someone that can't deal with Buu neither that it wouldn't be able to defeat:


Hmmm, no, when he is proven right I give him credit; he considered that himself could kill Gohan as Gotenks Buu and is proving himself right during the fight, I give anyone merit when it holds it.
I honestly don't really have much to say. Your interpretation really is valid. My understanding is that Piccolo wasn't sure if Gotenks was stronger than Super Buu hence why he suggests that he's at least "on par" with Super Buu. That leads me to believe that Piccolo's uncertainty would suggest is if there was a gap between the two, it's not by much. Super Buu was overwhelmed primarily because he was mentally weakened IMO.

Goten corrects Trunks so I'm inclined to believe Trunks was arrogant here. You're free to give into that if you want though.
 

Natasha Romanoff

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Goten corrects Trunks so I'm inclined to believe Trunks was arrogant here. You're free to give into that if you want though.
Even then, Goten's correction doesn't include Gohan being way stronger than him, just a little bit...
 

Goku9001

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Even then, Goten's correction doesn't include Gohan being way stronger than him, just a little bit...
Super Buu also says Ultimate Gohan was only stronger than him.

Chapter: 498 (DBZ 304), P2.3-4
Boo: “Far, far, waa~~aay far away, I felt a strong power…I won’t allow anyone to have a power stronger than mine…”
 

Natasha Romanoff

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Super Buu also says Ultimate Gohan was only stronger than him.

Chapter: 498 (DBZ 304), P2.3-4
Boo: “Far, far, waa~~aay far away, I felt a strong power…I won’t allow anyone to have a power stronger than mine…”
Trunks agreed that Gohan was just a little bit stronger (which is actually quantifiable comparison)... Why was Buu disrespected by Goku while claiming that Gohan can defeat him, while Gohan didn't give Gotenks that treatment and actually was confident on Gotenks defeating Buu...?
 

Goku9001

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Trunks agreed that Gohan was just a little bit stronger (which is actually quantifiable comparison)... Why was Buu disrespected by Goku while claiming that Gohan can defeat him, while Gohan didn't give Gotenks that treatment and actually was confident on Gotenks defeating Buu...?
Gohan never disagreed with Buu's recognition of Gohan merely being stronger. Regardless, Gohan told Gotenks to be careful so he wasn't certain of the outcome, unlike Goku who was certain that Gohan could have beaten Super Buu. False equivalence.
 

Natasha Romanoff

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Gohan never disagreed with Buu's recognition of Gohan merely being stronger. Regardless, Gohan told Gotenks to be careful so he wasn't certain of the outcome, unlike Goku who was certain that Gohan could have beaten Super Buu. False equivalence.
Because the fight was about to begin, on top of that, he was being praised by Buu so he wouldn't mind; when the comparison between Gotenks and Gohan was made they had more than enough time to discuss as Super Buu hadn't appeared.

You seems to believe that Gotenks' power was the issue, even though, he never express any doubt or concern; Super Buu was still unpredictable as he literally was about to explode himself moments before, which made Gohan himself get worried.

Goku told Gohan to kill Perfect Cell, even though he was on a seemingly power advantage, because he doesn't know what he can do, a similar concept can be applied to Gohan letting Gotenks defeat Buu:
0217-003.jpg
0217-004.jpg
 

Goku9001

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Because the fight was about to begin, on top of that, he was being praised by Buu so he wouldn't mind; when the comparison between Gotenks and Gohan was made they had more than enough time to discuss as Super Buu hadn't appeared.

You seems to believe that Gotenks' power was the issue, even though, he never express any doubt or concern; Super Buu was still unpredictable as he literally was about to explode himself moments before, which made Gohan himself get worried.

Goku told Gohan to kill Perfect Cell, even though he was on a seemingly power advantage, because he doesn't know what he can do, a similar concept can be applied to Gohan letting Gotenks defeat Buu:
I don't really doubt Gotenks' strength here. All I am saying is that this is a false equivalence because Gohan was never completely confident in Gotenks' chances of winning whereas Goku was confident in Gohan beating Buucollo.

Your main point here is that Goten only claimed that Gohan was stronger than Gotenks. This is the only explicit comparison made between Gotenks and Gohan. This doesn't mean that there can't be a large gap between the two. After all, Buu only states that Gohan is stronger than him in every moment that he admits inferiority, not much stronger, even though it is evident that Gohan is much stronger than Buu.
 

Natasha Romanoff

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I don't really doubt Gotenks' strength here. All I am saying is that this is a false equivalence because Gohan was never completely confident in Gotenks' chances of winning whereas Goku was confident in Gohan beating Buucollo.

Your main point here is that Goten only claimed that Gohan was stronger than Gotenks. This is the only explicit comparison made between Gotenks and Gohan. This doesn't mean that there can't be a large gap between the two. After all, Buu only states that Gohan is stronger than him in every moment that he admits inferiority, not much stronger, even though it is evident that Gohan is much stronger than Buu.
It was actually given a fair comparison and that can be accurately understand, Gohan was just a little bit stronger, unlike Buu's vague statement; and for a good reason, both Gotenks & Gohan showed to be able to dominate Buu.

Yes, this same Buu proclaimed that himself that a fusion of Goku & Gohan cannot defeat him and this same Buu couldn't grasp SSJ Vegetto on a proper way.

Gohan can sense ki, yet he didn't thought Gotenks' power was lacking to defeat Buu, he let him get the responsability, on the other hand.
 

Goku9001

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It was actually given a fair comparison and that can be accurately understand, Gohan was just a little bit stronger, unlike Buu's vague statement; and for a good reason, both Gotenks & Gohan showed to be able to dominate Buu.

Yes, this same Buu proclaimed that himself that a fusion of Goku & Gohan cannot defeat him and this same Buu couldn't grasp SSJ Vegetto on a proper way.

Gohan can sense ki, yet he didn't thought Gotenks' power was lacking to defeat Buu, he let him get the responsability, on the other hand.
Super Buu already saw Super Gotenks in action, was mentally weakened by Gotenks displaying power that was "at least on par" with his own, felt the weight of Super Gotenks' blows, and even witnessed a fully charged attack by Super Gotenks. I think the narrative shows Super Buu had ample time to recognize Super Gotenks' strength and yet Buu only acknowledges Gohan as his superior.

I really don't see why you're framing it that way. Goten says Gohan is even stronger than him and Buu describes Gohan as being stronger than him. Trunks and Buu are known to be arrogant and yet you are only taking into account Trunks' statement. This is a bit disingenuous the way you are framing Buu's statement here. But I agree, Gotenks' power isn't lacking. I think he's equal to Buu, maybe even slightly stronger at best.
 

Natasha Romanoff

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Super Buu already saw Super Gotenks in action, was mentally weakened by Gotenks displaying power that was "at least on par" with his own, felt the weight of Super Gotenks' blows, and even witnessed a fully charged attack by Super Gotenks. I think the narrative shows Super Buu had ample time to recognize Super Gotenks' strength and yet Buu only acknowledges Gohan as his superior.
Gotenks was trying to provocating him and infuriating him during the whole fight, on top of that, he was just serious at the end of the fight, which wouldn't be enough to accurately grasp or judge his capabilities, if Buu couldn't grasp neither it realizes that Vegetto was stronger than him, how is expected for him to grasp Gotenks properly? Gotenks & Vegetto were the only ones capable of making him mental unstable, similar to how Gohan did it with Cell. Gotenks was about to blow Buu into pieces, yet, he returned back to his base form, so at no point he used a full power blast.
I really don't see why you're framing it that way. Goten says Gohan is even stronger than him and Buu describes Gohan as being stronger than him. Trunks and Buu are known to be arrogant and yet you are only taking into account Trunks' statement. This is a bit disingenuous the way you are framing Buu's statement here. But I agree, Gotenks' power isn't lacking. I think he's equal to Buu, maybe even slightly stronger at best.
Even though, in this case, Trunks is being proven right, he receives Gohan's supportment, as well as he previously had Goku's, he is proving himself right, regardless he is arrogant or not, there is no merit in which he can be rationally belittled, it's like doubting that SSJ2 Gohan was stronger than Perfect Cell in the Cell Games; it's something illogical.

I don't doubt everything Buu said, even though, he is arrogant he was right when he said that he could've killed Gohan being Gotenks Buu.

So, Gohan would let Gotenks fight Buu if his ki is just equal to him, even though all the advantages Buu had and how dangerous he is? Why would he do that to two non-experience kids?
 

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If Gotenks went SSJ3 at the start of the fight, he would have won.
 

SSJ2

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While the kids are clearly arrogant which takes some stock away from their statements, they did claim that Gohan was only a little ahead of Gotenks' level. Gohan also was fine with Gotenks fighting Boo again, so at the very least they should be stronger than Boo. Their last engagement with Boo before defusing reinforces this.
 

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