Super Buu vs Super Gotenks

[FeatsofPower]

After reading the manga, it does seem Gotenks indeed has a step or two above Buu. He's really taking what Buu has to offer and giving it back even better.

Is Buu holding back? I dunno. We know he's pissed. Sure, he's mentally weakened, but I dunno. Super Buu is on the losing end of the battle.

That's what Goku and the Kaioshins think, that's what Gohan thinks, that's the narrative.

Super Buu can be plotting against Gohan while also losing to Gotenks. These two ideas can coincide.

Super Buu takes quite a beating as well. I'd say Super Buu is 93% of Gotenks or so, and 60-66% of Gohan. What do you guys think?

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Gotenks definitely wins, not only he showed to be superior in the fight, but him & Vegetto were the only ones capable of making him mental unstable and his power was compared to Gohan, it's also worth mentioning that Gohan himself didn't have any issue letting him defeat Super Buu. Most of the quotes that are used to imply the notion of them being equals are too inconclusive.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Gotenks definitely wins, not only he showed to be superior in the fight, but him & Vegetto were the only ones capable of making him mental unstable and his power was compared to Gohan, it's also worth mentioning that Gohan himself didn't have any issue letting him defeat Super Buu. Most of the quotes that are used to imply the notion of them being equals are too inconclusive.

How come Gotenks doesn't shake Majin Buu's throne of being the mightiest?

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

How come Gotenks doesn't shake Majin Buu's throne of being the mightiest?

But that is just in Buu's mind. Perhaps the gap between SSJ3 Gotenks and himself wasn't that big for Super Buu to realize that Gotenks was stronger than him, unlike Gohan.

 

[FeatsofPower]

But that is just in Buu's mind. Perhaps the gap between SSJ3 Gotenks and himself wasn't that big for Super Buu to realize that Gotenks was stronger than him, unlike Gohan.

Yeah, Super Buu is still within the rivaling range, he's quite close, but Gohan blows him out of the water.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Yeah, Super Buu is still within the rivaling range, he's quite close, but Gohan blows him out of the water.

Gotenks was able to take Super Buu's blast with the mouth and just took superficial damage whereas he did the same and was able to push him back, once he went serious he gave him a beatdown similar to Gohan's (during the whole fight Gotenks was provokating him).

Gotenks' power was compared to Gohan:

Chapter: 498 (DBZ 304), P 7.4-5
Context: after Boo disappears
Trunks: "Even if he really is still alive, it doesn't matter! That jerk was helpless against Gohan! [Gohan] was about as strong as our Super Gotenks!"
Goten: "He was even stronger."
Trunks: "Really? ...Yeah...Just a little bit."

In relation to how a slightly more powerful version of Buu got compared, even then, Gotenks seems better as he wasn't mocked:

Chapter: 502 (DBZ 308) P10.4-5
Context: after Gotenks absorbed Boo's time limit runs out and Gotenks inside him turns back into Goten and Trunks
Goku: "Your power's fallen a whole lot. Cheh...I'm a little dissapointed. This way, Gohan will be able to beat you even on his own..."

I think Gotenks is more than marginally stronger than Buu, but definitely not abnormally stronger.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Chapter: 499 (DBZ 305), P12.2-4
Gohan: “…That was dirty, you bastard…You ingested the two of them into yourself…”
Boo: “It’s your fault. You were stronger than I, who should have been the absolute strongest…When I sensed your distant presence, I started up on this strategy…In case maybe, just maybe, there was anyone stronger than myself…Then I hit upon it: if I absorbed that ‘Super Gotenks’ squirt I was fighting at the time, then no matter what kind of guy appeared, my throne as the strongest would not be shaken…”

On one hand, Boo might have singled out Gohan because he sensed him first. On the other hand. Gotenks is basically an afterthought for him… he’s just the kid who’ll make him the strongest.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Chapter: 499 (DBZ 305), P12.2-4
Gohan: “…That was dirty, you bastard…You ingested the two of them into yourself…”
Boo: “It’s your fault. You were stronger than I, who should have been the absolute strongest…When I sensed your distant presence, I started up on this strategy…In case maybe, just maybe, there was anyone stronger than myself…Then I hit upon it: if I absorbed that ‘Super Gotenks’ squirt I was fighting at the time, then no matter what kind of guy appeared, my throne as the strongest would not be shaken…”

On one hand, Boo might have singled out Gohan because he sensed him first. On the other hand. Gotenks is basically an afterthought for him… he’s just the kid who’ll make him the strongest.

Buu's quote alone doesn't make that much sense from a narrative viewpoint, he proclaimed himself to be the absolute strongest until Gohan appeared, which means that from his perspective Super Buu > Gotenks is correct. But, considering that this is the same Buu that considered that a fusion between Goku and Gohan wouldn't beat him, we can't just take one side of the coin, when we take the story as a whole, Gotenks being superior holds more weight.

 

[Papasmurf]

Boo was mentally hurt by Gotenks being at least around equal to him, plus he was completely off his rocker thinking he was unbeatable as Boohan. He's full of shit.

 

[Goku9001]

The way I see it is that Buu and Gotenks were equal but Gotenks got the leg up because he was mentally weakened and the mind/spirit is a key component to ki. The only statements we were given were Buu recognizing only Gohan as his strongest and Piccolo suggesting that Buu was stronger because Gotenks was "at least on par with him". Buu and Gotenks being equal seem consistent with all of the information we are given.

 

[sei'taer]

Chapter: 499 (DBZ 305), P12.2-4
Gohan: “…That was dirty, you bastard…You ingested the two of them into yourself…”
Boo: “It’s your fault. You were stronger than I, who should have been the absolute strongest…When I sensed your distant presence, I started up on this strategy…In case maybe, just maybe, there was anyone stronger than myself…Then I hit upon it: if I absorbed that ‘Super Gotenks’ squirt I was fighting at the time, then no matter what kind of guy appeared, my throne as the strongest would not be shaken…”

On one hand, Boo might have singled out Gohan because he sensed him first. On the other hand. Gotenks is basically an afterthought for him… he’s just the kid who’ll make him the strongest.

That line and the fact that Buu didn't even bother regenerating his damage the end of the fight pretty much says to me that Gotenks didn't have a shot at actually winning. Not to mention how Gohan just manhandles buu

There's also the fact that no one else at a comparable level to buu was able to beat him the whole series.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

That line and the fact that Buu didn't even bother regenerating his damage the end of the fight pretty much says to me that Gotenks didn't have a shot at actually winning. Not to mention how Gohan just manhandles buu

There's also the fact that no one else at a comparable level to buu was able to beat him the whole series.

Gohan's belief in Gotenks defeating Buu is more legitimate than the "Buu making him think he has victory and then absorbing him" mindset, which doesn't have a reason, nor does it make sense.

Buu didn't bother regenerating from all the damage Gohan did to him, but proceeds to pretend a self destruction.

At that point, Goku also thought that Gohan wouldn't have a chance of fighting against Buu.

The way I see it is that Buu and Gotenks were equal but Gotenks got the leg up because he was mentally weakened and the mind/spirit is a key component to ki. The only statements we were given were Buu recognizing only Gohan as his strongest and Piccolo suggesting that Buu was stronger because Gotenks was "at least on par with him". Buu and Gotenks being equal seem consistent with all of the information we are given.

Piccolo states that Gotenks is at least on par with him, it isn't a statement of them being equals. Gohan was strong enough for Super Buu to realize that he was stronger than him, their gap is bigger than the one between Gotenks & himself, not to mention that this is the same Gohan who was compared to Gotenks and was said to be a little bit stronger, which is more clear and direct than Buu's vague quote.

 

[Goku9001]

Piccolo states that Gotenks is at least on par with him, it isn't a statement of them being equals. Gohan was strong enough for Super Buu to realize that he was stronger than him, their gap is bigger than the one between Gotenks & himself, not to mention that this is the same Gohan who was compared to Gotenks and was said to be a little bit stronger, which is more clear and direct than Buu's vague quote.

I'm not really saying anything definitive here. My interpretation would be that Piccolo was unsure of who was stronger so he suggested that they were "on par" with each other which suggests a minimal difference between the two. Super Buu acknowledged Gotenks' power but only considered Gohan his superior which leads me to believe that they were equals when taking into account Piccolo's statement.

Trunks was clearly arrogant and unwilling to admit that Gohan was much stronger than Gotenks so I don't really take the claim seriously. That'd be the same reason why you don't take Buu seriously.

 

[Papasmurf]

I don't really see why Boo would purposely let Gotenks whoop his ass and get dangerously close to wiping him out, if he were completely or near-completely equal. And this is taking into account the fact that Gotenks can't maintain 3 for long at all, so he'd be losing energy just by remaining in SSJ3 during the fight, including when Boo had been knocked into that crater and wasn't coming out. Goku even said, "The way things are going, Gohan won't even get a turn" when Gotenks whaled on Boo during their last exchange, and he'd be a much more objective judge of their powers than the super-arrogant Boo. Gotenks is the stronger of the two, just not by a large gap. Goku's fight with Kid Boo proved that a SSJ3 with a very minimal edge on Boo would need a minute to charge up enough Ki to kill him, and if the battle remained on the lookout the entire time instead of allowing Boo to stall inside that crater Gotenks would have won. If Boo is about a 92, Gotenks should be at least 100 or so.

 

[Goku9001]

I don't really see why Boo would purposely let Gotenks whoop his ass and get dangerously close to wiping him out, if he were completely or near-completely equal. And this is taking into account the fact that Gotenks can't maintain 3 for long at all, so he'd be losing energy just by remaining in SSJ3 during the fight, including when Boo had been knocked into that crater and wasn't coming out. Goku even said, "The way things are going, Gohan won't even get a turn" when Gotenks whaled on Boo during their last exchange, and he'd be a much more objective judge of their powers than the super-arrogant Boo. Gotenks is the stronger of the two, just not by a large gap. Goku's fight with Kid Boo proved that a SSJ3 with a very minimal edge on Boo would need a minute to charge up enough Ki to kill him, and if the battle remained on the lookout the entire time instead of allowing Boo to stall inside that crater Gotenks would have won. If Boo is about a 92, Gotenks should be at least 100 or so.

Piccolo's statement was made when Buu was mentally weakened and that's when we see the large gap appear between the two. I don't think Buu let it happen. He was just mentally weakened which allowed Gotenks to take over even when both may have been equal.

 

[Papasmurf]

He didn't seem to have any real deficiency drawing out his full power when Gohan clobbered him and made him even more startled. I think the mental instabiliity just made him fight sloppier, like when he believed smoked would obstruct Vegetto from sensing his movements despite the fact that he knows Ki sense is a thing. Plus as soon as Piccolo said that about his mental weakness he furiously headbutted Gotenks and made him bleed, he didn't really seem weaker than earlier in the battle.

 

[Goku9001]

He didn't seem to have any real deficiency drawing out his full power when Gohan clobbered him and made him even more startled. I think the mental instabiliity just made him fight sloppier, like when he believed smoked would obstruct Vegetto from sensing his movements despite the fact that he knows Ki sense is a thing. Plus as soon as Piccolo said that about his mental weakness he furiously headbutted Gotenks and made him bleed, he didn't really seem weaker than earlier in the battle.

Sure. Gotenks was completely off-guard.

I think there's a difference between being angry and being mentally unstable like Buu was. The moment Gotenks displayed power that could threaten him left Buu spiraling nearly out of control in a fit of rage. I don't think simply being angry would be enough or there'd be countless times when characters would be "mentally weakened".

 

[Papasmurf]

Boo was totally "mentally weakened" when he saw someone completely outclass him as Gohan did and he didn't seem to have trouble drawing out his full power there. In fact Gohan didn't notice any difference at all when Boo showed up an hour later, and at the start of their first fight Boo didn't take him seriously at all until Gohan had beaten him up, and when he was visibly going insane Gohan didn't notice any power drop.

 

[Goku9001]

Boo was totally "mentally weakened" when he saw someone completely outclass him as Gohan did and he didn't seem to have trouble drawing out his full power there. In fact Gohan didn't notice any difference at all when Boo showed up an hour later, and at the start of their first fight Boo didn't take him seriously at all until Gohan had beaten him up, and when he was visibly going insane Gohan didn't notice any power drop.

We don't see veins protruding until he self-destructs but nothing affects the narrative of whether he could draw out his full power or not. If anything, it'd be like you said. Either he fights sloppily or he doesn't use his power properly.

 

[Papasmurf]

I think his fighting just gets sloppy when he's disturbed by someone coming close to or surpassing his power. Dude was definitely losing it and fighting like a retard against Vegetto too, unlike when he was Bootenks and detected Gohan while he was suppressed off the slightest movement.