Super Gogeta vs Buuhan

Goku9001

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But it's pretty dumb to think it'd boost someone less than Grade 2 or something considering the last fusion Boo saw boosted Goten and Trunks massively.
There's a drastic difference between the two which is hinted drastically weakens the fusion. Goku implies that when contemplating fusing with Hercule. I don't see an issue given the drastic difference between the two.
 

Natasha Romanoff

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What was Buuhan expecting when he claimed that Goku wouldn't beat him even if he merged with Vegeta?
Well, Buu has actually mocked SSJ3 Gotenks & afterwards he did it with Vegetto, despite being fairly outmatched. Gohan was the only clear exception of this, even though, he felt in need to measure his capabilities beforehand.

Gotenks Buu also believed that not even SSJ3 Goku could make a single scratch on him, whereas SSJ Goku actually can damage Base Super Buu.

Also, Gohan Buu going with a blast towards Goku & Vegeta doesn't exactly match his actions with his words.

@Papasmurf

I don't exactly believe in Kid Buu being stronger than Gohan Buu in the anime, but when it comes to the manga, I think many people underrate him because of Goku and Vegeta's statements, so it's possible that not even in the manga, Kid Buu was actually weaker than Gohan Buu, but neither has to be stronger. But, yeah, is possible that SSJ3 Goku was at the level when he fought Fat Buu or a little bit above, also that there's no such a big difference in between SSJ3 Goku (vs Kid Buu) against SSJ3 Goku (vs Fat Buu).

I don't think Vegeta was just a SSJ against Janemba, but he never appeared as SSJ2 Vegeta until fighting Kid Buu (which was far before the movie was produced) and that's why he isn't animated like that.
 
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Papasmurf

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There's a drastic difference between the two which is hinted drastically weakens the fusion. Goku implies that when contemplating fusing with Hercule. I don't see an issue given the drastic difference between the two.
Much more drastic diff between Satan and Goku and Goku was unopposed to fusing with Ten.
 

Papasmurf

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No, it happened in both medias:

The reason why Goku couldn't is due to his size being limited.
That's Boo's insides. Not a fair comparison to his outer skin, unless you think Fat Boo would be unharmed from a bazooka exploding in his head, something which he tanked outside. And Vegeta said it didn't work at all, so it was just superficial damage.I thought you were referring to when the mini Super Boo shielded Good Boo with his body and it blew up.
 

Natasha Romanoff

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That's Boo's insides. Not a fair comparison to his outer skin, unless you think Fat Boo would be unharmed from a bazooka exploding in his head, something which he tanked outside. And Vegeta said it didn't work at all, so it was just superficial damage.I thought you were referring to when the mini Super Boo shielded Good Boo with his body and it blew up.
If anything, the ones who were in disadvantage were Goku & Vegeta in this case, doesn't matter much as Goku stated that they would lose if they get outside.

Even then, in this instance, Goku didn't manage to damage him at all on his body. Considering prior cases such as Dabura or Majin Vegeta being able to make a hole on his body, it doesn't make Goku's notion as something impossible if he was outside.
 

FeatsofPower

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TOEI and Toriyama would never ever let the fusion of Goku and Vegeta be chump tier in power. There's absolutely no way Gotenks has anything for a fusion of Goku and Vegeta. They literally came up with the rivals boost out of nowhere to explain the disparity.

Vegetto > Gogeta >>> Gotenks
 

Papasmurf

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TOEI and Toriyama would never ever let the fusion of Goku and Vegeta be chump tier in power. There's absolutely no way Gotenks has anything for a fusion of Goku and Vegeta. They literally came up with the rivals boost out of nowhere to explain the disparity.

Vegetto > Gogeta >>> Gotenks
Toriyama approved of a guidebook which stated that Potara was like multiplying fusee A's power with fusee B, while Fusion Dance was like addition with boost N. Prior to Super there was a big big gap between Vegetto and Gogeta
 

Papasmurf

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If anything, the ones who were in disadvantage were Goku & Vegeta in this case, doesn't matter much as Goku stated that they would lose if they get outside.

Even then, in this instance, Goku didn't manage to damage him at all on his body. Considering prior cases such as Dabura or Majin Vegeta being able to make a hole on his body, it doesn't make Goku's notion as something impossible if he was outside.
The gap between SSJ1 Goku and Super Boo is far far greater than the gap between Dabura and Vegeta and Fat Boo, who wasn't even at the level he fought SSJ3 Goku in yet. Considering that SSJ3 Gotenks' Ki blast spam and mouth blast didn't make Super Boo turn to goop, there's no way Goku can unless Boo is caught off guard.
 

Natasha Romanoff

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The gap between SSJ1 Goku and Super Boo is far far greater than the gap between Dabura and Vegeta and Fat Boo, who wasn't even at the level he fought SSJ3 Goku in yet. Considering that SSJ3 Gotenks' Ki blast spam and mouth blast didn't make Super Boo turn to goop, there's no way Goku can unless Boo is caught off guard.
Thing is... that Buu has been shown to be able to be take damage by attacks of characters that were way weaker than him, so it isn't something impossible for Goku to achieve that. When it comes to Super Buu, he also got destroyed by SSJ Gotenks' technique, just shows how vulnerable he is, on top of that, Buu was pushed back by Gotenks' blast mouth who didn't fight serious until the end and was trying to infuriate him.
 
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FeatsofPower

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Prior to Super there was a big big gap between Vegetto and Gogeta
There's still a huge gap between Gogeta and Vegetto during this time, but only because of Vegeta lacking behind Goku.

Gogeta, despite being tremendously behind Vegetto here, is still stronger than even Buuhan. I think that's what makes the most sense.

Gogeta's aura literally fills up like the entire other world. It's one of the most spectacular displays of aura in the history of Dragonball. There's no way anyone is beating Super Gogeta in Z.
 

Goku9001

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Much more drastic diff between Satan and Goku and Goku was unopposed to fusing with Ten.
Sure. All I'm saying is the narrative acknowledges how a huge gap can drastically alter the result of the fusion. Just because it does not make sense to you doesn't mean we just discard the evidence.

Edit: Also, keep in mind that I'm not saying that Super Gogeta would lose. I don't think discarding Buu's statement because of "typical villain ignorance" is a fair argument. But for what it's worth, Goku and Elder Kaioshin definitely think fusion dance is powerful enough to beat Buutenks.
 
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Papasmurf

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There's still a huge gap between Gogeta and Vegetto during this time, but only because of Vegeta lacking behind Goku.
Vegeta is equal to Goku other than lacking SSJ3.
Gogeta, despite being tremendously behind Vegetto here, is still stronger than even Buuhan. I think that's what makes the most sense.

Gogeta's aura literally fills up like the entire other world. It's one of the most spectacular displays of aura in the history of Dragonball. There's no way anyone is beating Super Gogeta in Z.
Aura size is relative to strength? I guess initial 4th form Freeza may as well be Potara fusion tier then.

The aura didn't fill up the entire other world, that's just an effect that illustrates that it's a powerful enough energy to be felt from the living realm despite it apparently being harder to sense a Ki that's in the afterlife on Earth than the reverse. Gogeta's aura wasn't even 30 feet tall.
 

Papasmurf

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Thing is... that Buu has been shown to be able to be take damage by attacks of characters that were way weaker than him, so it isn't something impossible for Goku to achieve that. When it comes to Super Buu, he also got destroyed by SSJ Gotenks' technique, just shows how vulnerable he is, on top of that, Buu was pushed back by Gotenks' blast mouth who didn't fight serious until the end and was trying to infuriate him.
Gotenks yelled, "Revenge!!" when he shot that mouth blast. I highly doubt he purposefully held back for it, that was just the moment when Gotenks decisively took the upper hand since Gotenks only took cosmetic damage from Boo's mouth blast while Gotenks' blast disrupted Boo's fighting rhythm and damaged him. Before that, we saw Gotenks get a nosebleed from being headbutted by Boo and he felt visible pain from being hurled into the Kami palace (lookout).

Super Boo was toying with Gotenks when he was still SSJ (it's stated that Boo was mentally weakened for the first time when Gotenks went SSJ3 and fought him since no other opponent came close to his power before and Gotenks was at least equal now), and the SGKA is a highly amplified Ki attack. Vegetto even had to avoid the ghosts coming from Gohan-Boo even though he was far stronger than him. And what blew Boo up was the ghost exploding inside his stomach, not outside.

Not to mention, post-Rosat SSJ Gotenks is worlds above SSJ Goku. SSJ Goku wouldn't even last a minute against SPC.

Edit: Also, keep in mind that I'm not saying that Super Gogeta would lose. I don't think discarding Buu's statement because of "typical villain ignorance" is a fair argument. But for what it's worth, Goku and Elder Kaioshin definitely think fusion dance is powerful enough to beat Buutenks.

Yes and it's stated that fusing to Gokhan or whatever through the Potara would be stronger than the dance so that's why I disregard Boo's "nah it'd be futile" statement as mere arrogance.
 

Yoshi

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Gogeta, despite being tremendously behind Vegetto here, is still stronger than even Buuhan. I think that's what makes the most sense.
If that were the case, Goku would have asked Vegeta to do the fusion dance with him instead of using the potara earrings.
 

Goku9001

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If that were the case, Goku would have asked Vegeta to do the fusion dance with him instead of using the potara earrings.
Well, time was the issue. Goku seemed to agree with Elder Kaioshin that they wouldn't have the time needed to pull it off.
 

Goku9001

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Well, Buu has actually mocked SSJ3 Gotenks & afterwards he did it with Vegetto, despite being fairly outmatched. Gohan was the only clear exception of this, even though, he felt in need to measure his capabilities beforehand.

Gotenks Buu also believed that not even SSJ3 Goku could make a single scratch on him, whereas SSJ Goku actually can damage Base Super Buu.

Also, Gohan Buu going with a blast towards Goku & Vegeta doesn't exactly match his actions with his words.
Buu didn't mock SSJ3 Gotenks during their fight until he was no longer a threat.

Buutenks wouldn't be wrong there since both Goku and Elder Kaioshin seem to agree that SSJ3 Goku and Gohan were no match for him.

I would agree that Buu seems concerned about a fusion between Goku and Vegeta/Gohan.
 

Natasha Romanoff

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Buu didn't mock SSJ3 Gotenks during their fight until he was no longer a threat.
Yes, he did. This is before the fight even began:

Chapter: 493 (DBZ 299), P12.2-4
Boo: "Huh? Did you change a little bit?"
Gotenks: "Idii-iiot! I'm not making a big fuss over just 'a little bit'! I've become incredibly, incredibly, incree~eedibly strong!"

Buutenks wouldn't be wrong there since both Goku and Elder Kaioshin seem to agree that SSJ3 Goku and Gohan were no match for him.
Except that the gap between SSJ Goku and SSJ3 Goku is bigger than the one between Base Super Buu and Gotenks Buu.
 
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