Super Gogeta vs Buuhan

[Natasha Romanoff]

Gotenks yelled, "Revenge!!" when he shot that mouth blast. I highly doubt he purposefully held back for it, that was just the moment when Gotenks decisively took the upper hand since Gotenks only took cosmetic damage from Boo's mouth blast while Gotenks' blast disrupted Boo's fighting rhythm and damaged him. Before that, we saw Gotenks get a nosebleed from being headbutted by Boo and he felt visible pain from being hurled into the Kami palace (lookout).

Showing signs of effort or screaming doesn't equate to not be able to hold back, SSJ2 Kid Gohan showed signs of effort while firing the Kamehameha towards Perfect Cell:

Spoiler

Even then, Gotenks seems to recover quite rapidly, this in relation to how in another instances, characters kept the scratches during the whole fight, meaning that it didn't actually do much, Gotenks punched him and basically send him flying to the floor, before of that, Gotenks while making him a ball was able to left him visibly damaged, but Buu has regenetation.

Super Boo was toying with Gotenks when he was still SSJ (it's stated that Boo was mentally weakened for the first time when Gotenks went SSJ3 and fought him since no other opponent came close to his power before and Gotenks was at least equal now), and the SGKA is a highly amplified Ki attack. Vegetto even had to avoid the ghosts coming from Gohan-Boo even though he was far stronger than him. And what blew Boo up was the ghost exploding inside his stomach, not outside.

Perfect Cell was toying with Vegeta, yet, he is able to take his ki blasts as if nothing while walking, his superiority towards Vegeta has to be much smaller than the one Super Buu had over SSJ Gotenks.

Thing is, that statement is referring to Buu as a whole (including Fat Buu) or just his respective current form? If it's the first one, Goku has already fought on par with him.

When did Vegetto felt in need to avoid that technique? I mean, he just repeled them using lasers with his fingers and mocked that technique.

Not to mention, post-Rosat SSJ Gotenks is worlds above SSJ Goku. SSJ Goku wouldn't even last a minute against SPC.

Base Goku showed to be able to cut Gotenks Buu from behind, despite him being vastly stronger than Goku:

Spoiler

Even then, I don't disagree, SSJ Goku is weaker than even Perfect Cell, let alone his Super Perfect form, but don't know why he has to be worlds below SSJ Gotenks, the only way would be if we take at face value Trunks' estimation about Base Gotenks Post ~ Fat Buu.

 

[Pakl]

Regardless of how strong an hypothetical Manga Gogeta would be. M12 SSjin Gogeta gets stomped. Case closed.

 

[Boo Brand Milk]

Goku says Potara is the only way they can defeat Boo.

And Super Saiyan 3 Goku stomps both

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Regardless of how strong an hypothetical Manga Gogeta would be. M12 SSjin Gogeta gets stomped. Case closed.

How...? We never got to see Gogeta's full extent of capabilities, quantify from a "fight" that wasn't even close of being one, seems absurd.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

If that were the case, Goku would have asked Vegeta to do the fusion dance with him instead of using the potara earrings.

At a point in which he had little to no time and that not even going to Kaioshin Realm would save them from Buu...? How is this supposed to make sense?

 

[FeatsofPower]

Gotenks whooped Buu.

No way is Gogeta getting nerfed by Toriyama, he’s a beast.

 

[Yoshi]

Why not just have Gogeta between Super Boo Gotenks Absorbed and Ultimate Gohan? That's the best placement for him.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Why not just have Gogeta between Super Boo Gotenks Absorbed and Ultimate Gohan? That's the best placement for him.

How do? Super Gogeta seems beyond Super Janemba on a tremendously different level than Buuhan and Buutenks were versus Super Gotenks.

Also, if you are within range to make Super Gogeta superior, you take it obviously. It’s Gogeta after all.

Super Gokan can beat Buu, why not Super Gogeta?

 

[Yoshi]

How do? Super Gogeta seems beyond Super Janemba on a tremendously different level than Buuhan and Buutenks were versus Super Gotenks.

How do you know Super Janemba isn't Kid Boo level?

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Why not just have Gogeta between Super Boo Gotenks Absorbed and Ultimate Gohan? That's the best placement for him.

Are you talking about SSJ Gogeta or Gogeta in general (including his SSJ3)? Even then, Gogeta showed little to nothing to put a limit to his power... he's weaker than Vegetto, because Potara is implied to be superior than Fusion Dance in the conversation between Goku and Old Kaioshin.

 

[FeatsofPower]

How do you know Super Janemba isn't Kid Boo level?

Fusion is required to beat him and Base Gogeta probably can’t beat him.

he's weaker than Vegetto, because Potara is stronger than Fusion Dance in general.

Potara is not stronger than Metamoran, just more effective.

 

[Yoshi]

At a point in which he had little to no time and that not even going to Kaioshin Realm would save them from Buu...? How is this supposed to make sense?

I would think they would rather do the fusion dance first if Gogeta was strong enough to defeat Boohan. For one thing, Vegeta didn't like the idea of permanent fusion.

Are you talking about SSJ Gogeta or Gogeta in general (including his SSJ3)? Even then, Gogeta showed little to nothing to put a limit to his power... he's weaker than Vegetto, because Potara is stronger than Fusion Dance in general.

Super Saiyan Gogeta.

 

[FeatsofPower]

I would think they would rather do the fusion dance first if Gogeta was strong enough to defeat Boohan. For one thing, Vegeta didn't like the idea of permanent fusion.

Elder Kaioshon told Goku not to do Metamoran Fusion.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

I would think they would rather do the fusion dance first if Gogeta was strong enough to defeat Boohan. For one thing, Vegeta didn't like the idea of permanent fusion.

But, what is more eligible, selecting a Fusion that could result into a failure (Goku doesn't even know at this point wheter Vegeta has seen Fusion Dance in Afterlife or not, only that he has seen SSJ3) or permanently fuse and have an assured guarantee of victory (also Vegeta didn't knew that until the very end in which he had already put the Potara)...?

 

[Goku9001]

Yes, he did. This is before the fight even began:

Chapter: 493 (DBZ 299), P12.2-4
Boo: "Huh? Did you change a little bit?"
Gotenks: "Idii-iiot! I'm not making a big fuss over just 'a little bit'! I've become incredibly, incredibly, incree~eedibly strong!"


Except that the gap between SSJ Goku and SSJ3 Goku is bigger than the one between Base Super Buu and Gotenks Buu.

The Viz makes it clear that Buu is just noting a change. It's Gotenks that got frustrated by his statement but Buu wasn't mocking him.

The point is that Buutenks wasn't wrong because Goku and Elder Kaioshin agreed that SSJ3 Goku and Gohan both could not beat Buutenks. You are insinuating that they were actually stupid based on something that is completely ambiguous. Even if Goku blew a hole in Buu, that wouldn't mean that Buu would have received damage. Clearly not if SSJ3 Goku is powerless against Buutenks and as you said, the gap between SSJ and SSJ3 is larger than the gap between Super Buu and Buutenks.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

The Viz makes it clear that Buu is just noting a change. It's Gotenks that got frustrated by his statement but Buu wasn't mocking him.

Then, he smiled and was challenging him in a provocating tone:

Spoiler

The point is that Buutenks wasn't wrong because Goku and Elder Kaioshin agreed that SSJ3 Goku and Gohan both could not beat Buutenks. You are insinuating that they were actually stupid based on something that is completely ambiguous. Even if Goku blew a hole in Buu, that wouldn't mean that Buu would have received damage. Clearly not if SSJ3 Goku is powerless against Buutenks and as you said, the gap between SSJ and SSJ3 is larger than the gap between Super Buu and Buutenks.

Yes, he was wrong because if even SSJ Goku can damage Base Super Buu, there's no way in which SSJ3 Goku can't do it with Gotenks Buu.

No, that's what you are infering of the message, perhaps you're too afferate to that belief that you can't observe things on another manner, Buu's confidence is clearly out of place.

So, you are denying that Goku could make a hole through Buu, even though how vulnerable his body is? You're thinking that Buu couldn't have to regenerate or something like that? On top of that, Gotenks Buu superiority towards Goku and Gohan together is something questionable.

 

[Goku9001]

Then, he smiled and was challenging him in a provocating tone:

Spoiler

View attachment 1661View attachment 1662

Yes, he was wrong because if even SSJ Goku can damage Base Super Buu, there's no way in which SSJ3 Goku can't do it with Gotenks Buu.

No, that's what you are infering of the message, perhaps you're too afferate to that belief that you can't observe things on another manner, Buu's confidence is clearly out of place.

So, you are denying that Goku could make a hole through Buu, even though how vulnerable his body is? You're thinking that Buu couldn't have to regenerate or something like that? On top of that, Gotenks Buu superiority towards Goku and Gohan together is something questionable.

I'd be willing to admit that Buu underestimated him for whatever reason but he doesn't have Piccolo's mind. Buuhan does and Gohan explicitly recognized a change in Buu's behavior through Piccolo.

It's really not an improper inference. Both Buu and Goku acknowledge that they can't do anything against Super Buu. Elder Kaioshin and Goku make it clear that Super Saiyan 3 can't do anything against Buutenks even with Gohan's assistance. The problem here is that you look at things separately and cherrypick whatever aligns with your preconceived conclusion rather than put two-and-two together to form a logically cohesive conclusion. That's not my problem.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

I'd be willing to admit that Buu underestimated him for whatever reason but he doesn't have Piccolo's mind. Buuhan does and Gohan explicitly recognized a change in Buu's behavior through Piccolo.

It's really not an improper inference. Both Buu and Goku acknowledge that they can't do anything against Super Buu. Elder Kaioshin and Goku make it clear that Super Saiyan 3 can't do anything against Buutenks even with Gohan's assistance. The problem here is that you look at things separately and cherrypick whatever aligns with your preconceived conclusion rather than put two-and-two together to form a logically cohesive conclusion. That's not my problem.

Gohan was the only exception ever when it comes to Buu not underrating his opponents.

I mean, when he watched Vegetto transformed into SSJ he smiled:

Spoiler

Afterwards, he was provocating him and didn't feel overwhelmed by Vegetto:

Spoiler

Of course, inside of Buu, there's nothing Goku or Vegeta can do. Elder Kaioshin just says it from the perspective "I think", not as an assured guarantee, on top of that, his memories can also be limited to the Goku that fought Fat Buu (even though, he wasn't there). How am I cherrypicking...?

 

[Six Trails]

I think Gogeta would need Super Saiyan 2 or 3 to win.

 

[Goku9001]

@Natasha Romanoff

Goku doesn't think they can do anything against Super Buu from the outside. That's literally why Kid Buu came to be...