Super-Saiyan Goku (Namek) vs 10% Piccolo (post-Kami)

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Who wins?

 

[Papasmurf]

I don't think Piccolo was 10x Namek Goku so he gets stomped

 

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I don't think Piccolo was 10x Namek Goku so he gets stomped

He could be, though and it wouldn't be out-landish to think.

But yeah, maybe that's a bit excessive for some.

 

[Papasmurf]

#17 being 10x Namek Goku sounds a bit excessive even if he's much stronger than Vegeta and Trunks in that arc. 5x maybe, but 10? Unless Vegeta himself was like 6x Mecha Freeza I don't see that happening

First person I could see being that strong would be maybe #16, but probable for Semi Cell

 

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#17 being 10x Namek Goku sounds a bit excessive even if he's much stronger than Vegeta and Trunks in that arc. 5x maybe, but 10? Unless Vegeta himself was like 6x Mecha Freeza I don't see that happening

First person I could see being that strong would be maybe #16, but probable for Semi Cell

I think Semi-Perfect Cell at 1% could one-shot Namek Saga Goku.

About #17 being that high. Well, remember about the future implications, too. I know some people don't think this, but I like to think even Gohan before he lost his arm is quite a bit higher than Mecha-Freeza and he lost easily to "less than half-power" Future #17 and it snow-balls from there.

 

[Papasmurf]

Gohan doesn't have to be >> Mecha Freeza before he lost his arm. He trained for like 14 years since his father's death and still failed to reach the level of Yardrat Goku, so his progressions have been pretty slow, and kid Future Trunks tells us you don't necessarily even have to be as strong as Namek Goku to attain Super Saiyan. But there's still implied to be a pretty large gap between one-arm Gohan and 2-arm Gohan, to the point where he thinks he can take on #17 with #18 there to offer help, and Future Trunks is >= one arm Gohan, so Mecha Freeza fitting in between two-arm and one arm Gohan makes sense.

 

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Gohan doesn't have to be >> Mecha Freeza before he lost his arm. He trained for like 14 years since his father's death and still failed to reach the level of Yardrat Goku, so his progressions have been pretty slow, and kid Future Trunks tells us you don't necessarily even have to be as strong as Namek Goku to attain Super Saiyan. But there's still implied to be a pretty large gap between one-arm Gohan and 2-arm Gohan, to the point where he thinks he can take on #17 with #18 there to offer help, and Future Trunks is >= one arm Gohan, so Mecha Freeza fitting in between two-arm and one arm Gohan makes sense.

He actually expressed some doubt, IIRC. It wasn't out-right stated, but it was all but. He seemed like he knew he might die, so #18 being there too might have been what worried him.

post-Yardrat Goku doesn't really have a fixed power-level we know of. For all we know, how-ever illogical it might be, he could be 100x higher than he was on Namek. Of-course it doesn't make sense, but that's a story. Gohan might just not have been able to catch-up to Goku, because he was already that far ahead of everyone.

 

[Papasmurf]

He did knock out Trunks as insurance in case he fails, but he was still sure of himself when he stated he'd gotten strong enough that he wouldn't lose - all in all it parallels Vegeta's attitude against 4th form Freeza where he was 90% sure and 10% unsure because of his past failure despite getting stronger, but it turns out the villain was just fucking with him.

Post-Yardrat doesn't have a real fixed power level but I reckon an outrageous increase would be stated Gohan felt his power on Namek and everybody's been sure to make note of massive training gains 'til then and afterwards

 

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He did knock out Trunks as insurance in case he fails, but he was still sure of himself when he stated he'd gotten strong enough that he wouldn't lose - all in all it parallels Vegeta's attitude against 4th form Freeza where he was 90% sure and 10% unsure because of his past failure despite getting stronger, but it turns out the villain was just fucking with him.

Post-Yardrat doesn't have a real fixed power level but I reckon an outrageous increase would be stated Gohan felt his power on Namek and everybody's been sure to make note of massive training gains 'til then and afterwards

Well, in Vegeta's case he knows that Freeza always fucks around and does it just to make you scared for your life. With #17 does Gohan have any reason to believe that he wasn't going all-out when he defeated him last time?

There's also that Goku still thought it was quite impressive for even a Super-Saiyan to have over-come both Freeza and King-Cold so easily, so Goku still considers that impressive that might point to him not being leagues upon leagues above Freeza, but still I think in the Future, Gohan'd at-least try to surpass Freeza in-order to fight the Androids.

 

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#17's personality in the future is every bit as sadistic as Freeza's so I wouldn't rule it out.

I guess that makes sense but Yardrat Goku not being noted to have grown massively since Namek points to a moderate growth compared to his Kaio training gains or his spaceship gains, etc. so I tend to have one-arm Future Gohan not that much stronger than Namek Goku. Two-arm Gohan being shit might be understandable since the androids have no ki signature and they only have feats of taking down the weaker Z senshi who didn't prepare for the androids. Bulma saying "If only Goku were here" might have influenced Gohan to think Goku would've defeated them if he were alive, too

 

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#17's personality in the future is every bit as sadistic as Freeza's so I wouldn't rule it out.

I guess that makes sense but Yardrat Goku not being noted to have grown massively since Namek points to a moderate growth compared to his Kaio training gains or his spaceship gains, etc. so I tend to have one-arm Future Gohan not that much stronger than Namek Goku. Two-arm Gohan being shit might be understandable since the androids have no ki signature and they only have feats of taking down the weaker Z senshi who didn't prepare for the androids. Bulma saying "If only Goku were here" might have influenced Gohan to think Goku would've defeated them if he were alive, too

I don't think what Bulma said has to be strictly strength-related quote.

I think Gohan before his death is >>> Namek-Saga Goku.

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah he's above Namek Goku when he trained but two-arm Gohan, I'm not so sure.

It's somewhat strength-related since Trunks said if he couldn't find the weaknesses of the cyborgs while he's in the past he thought about bringing the cured Goku to the future to battle them, and he praised him saying he's every bit as strong if not stronger than the rumors said.

Ofc the cured Goku is post-3 years but according to somebody on this forum he's basically the same l

 

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Yeah he's above Namek Goku when he trained but two-arm Gohan, I'm not so sure.

It's somewhat strength-related since Trunks said if he couldn't find the weaknesses of the cyborgs while he's in the past he thought about bringing the cured Goku to the future to battle them, and he praised him saying he's every bit as strong if not stronger than the rumors said.

Ofc the cured Goku is post-3 years but according to somebody on this forum he's basically the same l

Trunks took it to mean strength to an extent, I guess. But I'm not sure whether that's exactly what Bulma meant.

But I still don't see why Gohan before he lost his arm couldn't at-least be above Freeza. I also think Kid Future Trunks is above Freeza, but no-one thinks that.

 

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If Kid future Trunks is > Freeza the BOG Freeza statement is more bullshit than I thought

Maybe Future Gohan was Ultimate and used SSJ as a nerf against the cyborgs to pull a Roshi 1 1 1

 

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If Kid future Trunks is > Freeza the BOG Freeza statement is more bullshit than I thought

Maybe Future Gohan was Ultimate and used SSJ as a nerf against the cyborgs to pull a Roshi 1 1 1

Gohan started-off as Super-Saiyan, but once Trunks got tired and lower he powered-down back to regular, since he didn't need that anymore.

Trunks does say "even after becoming a Super-Saiyan, I wasn't a match for them" or something like that.

 

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Well the first time he fought the cyborgs manga-wise is as a young adult and he was in 8th grade here so I don't think it refers to this time frame

 

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Well the first time he fought the cyborgs manga-wise is as a young adult and he was in 8th grade here so I don't think it refers to this time frame

True, but he still says "even after becoming a Super-Saiyan", which seems to imply that that in itself is an accomplishment. For someone as high as Trunks was at that point (when even Freeza was fodder to him), that's got to mean something.

 

[Papasmurf]

You also have to take into account that becoming a Super Saiyan was a big deal around that time. Gohan wasn't sure he could do it until Goku encouraged him, and Vegeta thought it made him the best thing since sliced bread.

 

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You also have to take into account that becoming a Super Saiyan was a big deal around that time. Gohan wasn't sure he could do it until Goku encouraged him, and Vegeta thought it made him the best thing since sliced bread.

That's true. Super-Saiyan was rare at that point, but still if Super-Saiyan didn't make even make him as powerful as now-fodder Freeza, wouldn't Trunks know something is up? Like this doesn't match-up to what I thought that'd be.

 

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Being Super Saiyan isn't really strength related since kid Goten and Trunks in the Budokai are waaaaaay above Future Trunks when he first appeared and everybody was shocked they could use the form