The Captain's assortment of inconsequential numbers (the "who cares about GT?" edition)

[SIAD]

CC, what changes would you make with your list of Power Levels in DBGT, considering that:

  Omega Yi Xing Long (Minus Energy Power Ball) = Goku SSJG (Vs Beerus).

  Goku Base (Post God) >> Vegeta SSJ2 (Enraged)> Beerus (Initial)> Vegetto SSJ3 (BoDBS) >>>>> Vegetto SSJ3 (Boo).

  Consider that the SSJ multiplier on the God Post Base was at least 10x.

  Surely the SSJ multiplier of a Hypothetical Vegetto (Pre God) was still great, considering that Vegetto (BoG / Pre God)> Gokhan (Pre God).

  Also at least Goku SSJ3 (Pre God)> Gohan Ultimate or even Goku / Vegeta SSJ2 (Pre God)> Gohan Ultimate. Which suggests that Vegetto (Pre God) >>>>> Vegetto (Boo).

  What would be your new PL numbers for the most powerful DBGT characters, to make sense of everything I mentioned?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Going by the manga for battle powers/scaling (considering Super's anime is all over the place), then it's difficult to say. The analysis for the Minus Energy Power Ball would probably push it above SSB tier via-scaling. You could argue Super Yi XIng Long's regular power is simply far less as he didn't present any universe level feats, though Gogeta's commendation of him seemed to suggest surviving the Big Bang Kamehameha and if using SSJ Goku in the U6 Arc being little more than 10x weaker than his SSB self as evidence for his power, the same should apply to Yi Xing Long. Making further GT and Super comparisons with all that said, it could also be argued that SS4 Gogeta > SSJ Kefla ~ ToP Gohan considering the former's power resulted in the fusion time being cut to 1/3 its usual despite SS4 not seeming to drain much Ki.

Anyway, I'd prefer to wait until Super is far enough ahead to make a proper list for that and, by extension, make amendments to the GT list.

 

[SIAD]

Going by the manga for battle powers/scaling (considering Super's anime is all over the place), then it's difficult to say. The analysis for the Minus Energy Power Ball would probably push it above SSB tier via-scaling. You could argue Super Yi XIng Long's regular power is simply far less as he didn't present any universe level feats, though Gogeta's commendation of him seemed to suggest surviving the Big Bang Kamehameha and if using SSJ Goku in the U6 Arc being little more than 10x weaker than his SSB self as evidence for his power, the same should apply to Yi Xing Long. Making further GT and Super comparisons with all that said, it could also be argued that SS4 Gogeta > SSJ Kefla ~ ToP Gohan considering the former's power resulted in the fusion time being cut to 1/3 its usual despite SS4 not seeming to drain much Ki.

Anyway, I'd prefer to wait until Super is far enough ahead to make a proper list for that and, by extension, make amendments to the GT list.

Then Minus Energy Power Ball could be up to 10x Omega Yi Xing Long.

Good point. I have 2 questions:

  Do you think Vegeta SSJ2 (Pre Enraged) was> Gohan Ultimate?

  How much did Beerus light when he went from being hit by Vegeta SSJ2 (Enraged) to knock him out? Will it be a 10x increase?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Do you think Vegeta SSJ2 (Pre Enraged) was> Gohan Ultimate?

Anime-wise, yes. Manga-wise, no as there's no reason to believe Vegeta was on Gohan's level prior to the rage boost, especially considering Goku's image training suggested his SSJ form was only around Pure Boo's level. I'd say even having Pre-God SS3 Goku above Gohan is debatable in the manga, since the only thing pointing towards it is Goku being chosen for the God ritual (and that may just be due to the general depency his allies tend to have on him).

How much did Beerus light when he went from being hit by Vegeta SSJ2 (Enraged) to knock him out? Will it be a 10x increase?

It would be large considering Goku described SSG as a world of power he never imagined, though it needn't be 10x. Anime-wise, Vegeta was the greatest mortal power up to that point so it would be very large. Manga-wise, Beerus didn't seem to be taking the fight too seriously even at his initial level based on his facial expressions, so a 2x boost or even less would suffice (it's even arguable if he powered up at all).

 

[SIAD]

Do you think Vegeta SSJ2 (Pre Enraged) was> Gohan Ultimate?

Anime-wise, yes. Manga-wise, no as there's no reason to believe Vegeta was on Gohan's level prior to the rage boost, especially considering Goku's image training suggested his SSJ form was only around Pure Boo's level. I'd say even having Pre-God SS3 Goku above Gohan is debatable in the manga, since the only thing pointing towards it is Goku being chosen for the God ritual (and that may just be due to the general depency his allies tend to have on him).

How much did Beerus light when he went from being hit by Vegeta SSJ2 (Enraged) to knock him out? Will it be a 10x increase?

It would be large considering Goku described SSG as a world of power he never imagined, though it needn't be 10x. Anime-wise, Vegeta was the greatest mortal power up to that point so it would be very large. Manga-wise, Beerus didn't seem to be taking the fight too seriously even at his initial level based on his facial expressions, so a 2x boost or even less would suffice (it's even arguable if he powered up at all).

And in how many times stronger do you have Goku SSJ3 (Pre God) on Gohan Ultimate? Both of the Anime.

  And how much stronger do you have Goku SSJG (Vs Beerus) over Vegeta SSJ2 (Enraged)? Both of the Anime.

 

[SIAD]

CC, I was thinking that maybe Goku SSJ4 (Vs Si Xing Long) is much stronger than his previous SSJ4.

  I know that SSJ4 takes power to the Limits, but I don't know if you noticed that Goku Base (Vs Si Xing Long) seemed to be noticeably that its previous Base state. Then Goku transforms into SSJ4 and ejects a tremendous Ki that impresses Vegeta. As if it was the first time Goku gets such an amazing Ki.

  Then:

  Goku SSJ4 (Beyond Limits) >>>>>>>>> Goku SSJ4 (Vs Si Xing Long) >>>> Goku SSJ4 (FP) >> Goku SSJ4 (Initial).

  What do you think of my theory?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Vegeta never had the opportunity to sense SS4 Goku use his full power against an equal opponent prior though. By the time he came back to consciousness from Baby's possession, SS4 Goku had stopped fighting and he was knocked out for the entirety of Goku's fight with Super #17. Goku's use of SS4 against the previous Evil Dragons was also far too brief and didn't result in Goku needing to power up to its limits.

 

[SIAD]

Vegeta never had the opportunity to sense SS4 Goku use his full power against an equal opponent prior though. By the time he came back to consciousness from Baby's possession, SS4 Goku had stopped fighting and he was knocked out for the entirety of Goku's fight with Super #17. Goku's use of SS4 against the previous Evil Dragons was also far too brief and didn't result in Goku needing to power up to its limits.

And do you think there is a possibility that Goku SSJ4 (FP) is> Goku SSJ4 (Kamehameha x10)? Considering that the first to launch a Kamehameha Regular immediately knocked down Baby Vegeta Golden Oohzaru, while the second time it took to knock down Baby Vegeta himself?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I'd chalk that up to Goku not being used to his new technique yet, hence the delayed effect.

 

[SIAD]

And you have Vegetto SSJ3 (Boo)> = Goku SSJ4 (Initial)?

 

[SIAD]

By the way, at what level do you have Goku SSJ3 (BoGT)? You have the SSJ3 = 6.25x Base in DBGT. What you would have to Goku SSJ3 (BoGT) in 2,000,000,000,000. However you have Goku SSJ3 (EoZ) with 2,200,000,000,000.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I'd probably just increase the multiplier for his BoGT self since the plot implies he's at least above Base Gohan at the start.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Why does Goku get stronger between M2 and Baby? Don’t both arcs happen back to back?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

His feats suggest a power up. Base Rild was stated to be stronger than Boo rather than far stronger, suggesting the gap between he and Gohan Boo wasn't huge, and Goku wasn't massively ahead of him and the events of Trunks possessing Baby suggested that SSJ Trunks power wasn't something Base Goku could easily handle with how he ducks for cover when Trunks tries to exorcise Baby from himself. Meanwhile, Goku was able to easily overpower SSJ Gohan when he was possessed by Baby, someone who should be superior to Trunks in equal forms. GT tends to hyperbolise the idea that Saiyans get stronger with each fight considering Galu's power up between his fight with Lood and visiting M2, so him getting stronger after what seems to be a month or two iirc is far from out of the question.

 

[SIAD]

What Power Levels would you give Gohan, Vegeta and Piccolo (BoGT)?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Gohan would be no different from his Baby Arc Base self at best and at worst equal to his Boo Arc Ultimate self. Vegeta would be either inferior or equal to Goku in the same form at the time, whereas Piccolo would be either somewhere below their base forms or at best below their SS2 forms. Anything beyond that is speculation.

 

[SIAD]

I have Goku and Vegeta the same in their ways.

Shouldn't Piccolo be> Saiyan Base, considering that Trunks said Piccolo is superior to him?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Probably, considering SSJ Trunks > Base Goku at the start of GT.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

How reliable do you think the Perfect Files are about Gohan keeping his training? The entry suggest that based on Gohan going with SSJ, when if anything transforming is the inferior method going by Old Kaioshin’s comments. The series itself seems to portray Gohan as retired from fighting as well.


There’s also Rildo vs Boo. Don’t you think the wording, omitting the “Majin” doesn’t quite sound like he’s referring to a Majin Boo he’s more… Familiar with? Like the one Boo that isn’t a “majin”/demon (Good Boo) or the Boo he’s been seeking a rematch with all those years (Pure Boo)? There’s also how Gohan-Boo’s power mostly doesn’t even come from Boo himself.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

How reliable do you think the Perfect Files are about Gohan keeping his training?

It ought to be seen as reliable when feats and scaling within the series back this assessment up, particularly Gohan VS Rild.

The entry suggest that based on Gohan going with SSJ, when if anything transforming is the inferior method going by Old Kaioshin’s comments.

Rou-Dai Kaioshin foregoes this line of thinking when making it so Galu can achieve SS4, a form that still drains Ki over time as all Super Saiyan forms do and is an even greater case of unnaturally changing the body than the previous forms, so it's safe to say his assessment in the Boo Arc was thrown out the window in favour of going down the quick and easy path of transformations.

The series itself seems to portray Gohan as retired from fighting as well.

Retiring from fighting =/= Retiring from training. Vegeta gave up fighting after the Cell Game and gave no indication of changing his mind until Goku revealed he'd be returning, yet he still kept up training to surpass his current limits.

There’s also Rildo vs Boo. Don’t you think the wording, omitting the “Majin” doesn’t quite sound like he’s referring to a Majin Boo he’s more… Familiar with? Like the one Boo that isn’t a “majin”/demon (Good Boo) or the Boo he’s been seeking a rematch with all those years (Pure Boo)?

Not really. Goku and several other characters such as Piccolo, Gohan, Vegeta, etc. refer to him as Boo and Majin Boo interchangeably regardless of his current form, so Goku wouldn't be pedantic enough to make this his method of separating them when he'd previously been more direct about which form he was referring to in situations. Goku witnessed the power of all the Boos and fought Boo's strongest forms directly in the anime, so there's no reason for him to omit any.

There’s also how Gohan-Boo’s power mostly doesn’t even come from Boo himself.

I doubt he'd consider this a factor when using Boo as a benchmark. After all, Cell's power prior to his Zenkai was the result of him absorbing #17 and #18, yet 1st form Cell clearly wasn't the benchmark for Dabura.