The Captain's assortment of inconsequential numbers (the "who cares about GT?" edition)

[GreatSaiyaman123]

As you pointed out, Old Kaioshin had Goku go SSJ4 because it was quickier. Doesn’t mean it was the more effective option in the long run. But is SSJ4 even implied to eat up so much energy?

Vegeta at least had his Saiyan Instincts making him urge to get stronger, while Gohan’s human blood is shown to be predominant here, and he’s known for rarely training so hard.

Well if we’re using the anime here then Pure Boo is definitely the one Goku had in mind. What about this SBV2 > Base Rild > Kid Boo > SBV1 chain?

But for real, only one Boo stood out in Goku’s mind to have him waste 20 years of his life training towards a rematch.

Cell was designed to absorb 17 and 18 to unlock his true power and ended up being even stronger without 18 at the end of the day. Meanwhile Boo basically stole Gohan’s power, and Goku even said he was “cheating” because of that.

 

[SSJ2]

Super Oob 86% of SBV2? That seems pretty high.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

As you pointed out, Old Kaioshin had Goku go SSJ4 because it was quickier. Doesn’t mean it was the more effective option in the long run.

Hence why the same can definitely apply to Gohan.

But is SSJ4 even implied to eat up so much energy?

Not as much as something like SS2 or 3, but Galu being unable to use the form after using up too much Ki such as his overuse of Shunkan Ido at the end of the Baby Arc, his attempted self destruction against Super #17 and the damage he took from Yi Xing Long show it's still a lot more draining than the regular SSJ form.

Vegeta at least had his Saiyan Instincts making him urge to get stronger, while Gohan’s human blood is shown to be predominant here, and he’s known for rarely training so hard.

The anime did add a scene of Goku reminding the next generation to train before he took off with Oob, which may have provided a change to Gohan. One of the staff also commented on Gohan having come back to being a serious fighter by the Super #17 Arc, so it seems doubtful he slacked off like his Boo and Super selves.

Well if we’re using the anime here then Pure Boo is definitely the one Goku had in mind. What about this SBV2 > Base Rild > Kid Boo > SBV1 chain?
But for real, only one Boo stood out in Goku’s mind to have him waste 20 years of his life training towards a rematch.

Pure Boo stood out because he was the only Boo Goku would be able to have a rematch with. Oob obviously couldn't be reincarnated with access to Gohan Boo's strength, after all (unless he taps into that God Ki ). As for anime scaling, GT makes it unlikely that it's sticking by the anime power chain. After all, Goku was satisfied with Oob's power after their rematch at the start, suggesting he'd caught up to or surpassed his previous incarnation, yet it's not until Rild shows up that Goku's base form is at a level he can fight against someone "stronger than Boo" despite the likes of Redjic and Lood having shown themselves to be above the Base Goku that stalemated Oob. There's also the implications of EoZ Base Galu catching up to Pure Boo's level.

Cell was designed to absorb 17 and 18 to unlock his true power and ended up being even stronger without 18 at the end of the day. Meanwhile Boo basically stole Gohan’s power, and Goku even said he was “cheating” because of that.

Cell also stole power from draining countless humans, yet Goku never let that alter his judgement. More to the point though is that Goku has made it clear in the best when he's referring to or excluding a form of Boo, yet never makes it apparent with the Rild comparison.

Super Oob 86% of SBV2? That seems pretty high.

It's more of a gap than KKx2 Goku VS 18k Vegeta, at which Goku was clearly outclassed. Whilst Baby makes it apparent Oob's power is inferior, it's ambiguous if it's by as much as he says when Oob's plan quickly became to intentionally let himself be turned into chocolate.

 

[SIAD]

Whereas Goku Base (Super # 17) >> Kid Boo (Anime)> = Goku SSJ3 (Boo / Anime)> Vegetto SSJ (Boo)> Gohan Boo (Enraged). Shouldn't Goku Base (Super # 17) be over Vegetto SSJ's (Boo) 160,000,000,000,000?

It is not very difficult to adjust, you could have Goku SSJ4 (FP) 2x the power of Goku SSJ4 (Initial). Goku SSJ4's Kamehameha (FP) had more or less the same impact on Baby Vegeta Golden Monkey, as when he received Goku SSJ4's Kamehameha x10 (Initial).

I suspect that since Goku was a child, he could not use his SSJ4 (FP) status on his own merits and by receiving the energy of the Saiyans he managed to use his SSJ4 (FP).

It may also be a good idea to slightly widen the gap between Goku SSJ4 (Initial) and SSJ4 (FP), in order to have Goku Base (Arc Super # 17)> Vegetto SSJ (Boo).

Maybe you could also have the Kamehameha x10 again as an amplified attack x10 in order to have Omega Yi Xing Long more or less at the same level as Goku SSJG (Vs Beerus). Keep in mind that Goku Base (Post God) is >>>>> Vegeta SSJ2 (Enraged)> Beerus (Completely Suppressed)> Vegetto SSJ3 (BoS) >>> Vegetto SSJ3 (Boo). DBGT being Anime should be compared in terms of feats to DBS Anime.

 

[SIAD]

How would you place your new numbers, considering that Goku SSJ3 (BoGT)> Gohan Base (BoGT)> = Gohan Ultimate (Boo)?

It occurs to me that maybe you can have the SSJ2 = SSJ X2 and the SSJ3 = SSJ2 X2 again.

It would suit you very well, since that way you would not have to increase the power of Goku Base and SSJ much in BoGT.

To keep SBV1> Vegetto SSJB (Boo)> = Baby Vegeta Base, you only need to have the multiplier Vegetto SSJ (Boo) = 50x Vegetto Base (Boo).

It may also be a good idea to slightly widen the gap between Goku SSJ4 (Initial) and SSJ4 (FP), in order to have Goku Base (Arc Super # 17)> Vegetto SSJ (Boo).

Maybe you could also have the Kamehameha x10 again as an amplified attack x10 in order to have Omega Yi Xing Long more or less at the same level as Goku SSJG (Vs Beerus). Keep in mind that Goku Base (Post God) is >>>>> Vegeta SSJ2 (Enraged)> Beerus (Completely Suppressed)> Vegetto SSJ3 (BoS) >>> Vegetto SSJ3 (Boo). DBGT being Anime should be compared in terms of feats to DBS Anime.

 

[Animelover5487]

@Six Trails Gaslighted me into doing this.

Ultimate Dragon Balls Arc

Son Goku
~ Base - 320,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 800,000,000,000

Oob - 320,000,000,000

Pan
~ Full Power - 210,000,000,000
~ Dehydrated - 210[ /b]

Trunks
~ Base - 235,200,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 588,000,000,000
~ Base, post-Redjic - 294,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan, post-Redjic - 735,000,000,000

Son Goten - 235,200,000,000

Gill - 250

Gel - 105

Sheela - 95

Redjic
~ Initial - 295,000,000,000
~ Full power - 354,000,000,000

Zunama
~ Base - 450,000,000
~ Drunk/Enraged - 90,000,000,000

Bonpara - 890,000

Danpara - 870,000

Sonpara - 865,000

Muma - 470,000,000,000

Leion-2,350,000

Mutchi
Mutchi Motchi - 920,000
True form - 290,000,000,000

Lood
~ Level 2 - 600,000,000,000
~ Level 3 - 810,000,000,000

Dolltaki - 300

Giant Arthropods-250

Baby Arc

Battle on M2

Son Goku
~ Initial - 800,000,000,000
~ Base, full power - 8,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 20,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 25,000,000,000,000

Pan
~ Base - 420,000,000,000
~ Upset - 1,050,000,000,000
~ Enraged - 5,040,000,000,000

Trunks
~ Base - 1,960,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 4,900,000,000,000

Mega Cannon Sigma
~ Neji - 1,250,000,000,000
~ Veise - 1,100,000,000,000
~ Rivet - 1,000,000,000,000
~ Nutt - 850,000,000,000
~ Super Mega Cannon Sigma - 3,350,000,000,000
~ Super Mega Cannon Sigma, with Nutt - 4,200,000,000,000]

General Rild
~ Base - 7,250,000,000,000
~ Hyper Mega Rilld - 11,450,000,000,000
~ Super Hyper Mega Rilld - 18,125,000,000,000

Dr. Mu - 1,000

Baby - 180,000,000,000

Battle against Baby

Son Goku
~ Base - 16,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 40,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 50,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3 - 80,000,000,000,000
~ Golden Oozaru - 400,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 4, initial - 220,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 4, powered up - 1,000,000,000,000,000
~ Full Power Super Saiyan 4 - 1,500,000,000,000,000

Pan
~ Base - 2,100,000,000,000
~ Enraged - 6,300,000,000,000

Trunks
~ Base - 2,940,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 7,350,000,000,000
~ Trunks-Baby - 3,120,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan Trunks-Baby - 7,800,000,000,000

Son Goten
~ Base  - 235,200,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 588,000,000,000
~ Goten-Baby - 595,200,000,000
~ Super Saiyan Goten-Baby - 1,488,000,000,000
~ Attempted self-destruction - 5,208,000,000,000

Son Gohan
~ Base - 4,620,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 11,550,000,000,000
~ Gohan-Baby - 4,980,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan Gohan-Baby - 12,450,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2, unseen - 15,562,500,000,000

Piccolo - 6,300,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ Base - 5,600,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 14,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 17,500,000,000,000

Kibitoshin - 55,120,000,000

Oob
~ Base - 60,000,000,000,000
~ Super Oob - 180,000,000,000,000

Mr. Boo - 825,000,000,000

Gotenks (Hypothetical)
~ Base - 23,808,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 59,520,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3 - 119,040,000,000,000

Baby
~ Teenager - 225,000,000,000
~ Teenager, full power - 360,000,000,000
~ Adult - 90,000,000,000,000

Vegeta Baby
~ Base - 105,000,000,000,000
~ Super Vegeta-Baby - 168,000,000,000,000
~ Super Vegeta-Baby 2 - 210,000,000,000,000
~ Golden Oozaru - 1,050,000,000,000,000

Dende-Baby - 60,000,000,000

Popo-Baby - 56,650,000,000

Super #17 Arc

Son Goku
~ Base - 150,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 375,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 4 - 1,500,000,000,000,000
~ 10x Kamehameha - 3,000,000,000,000,000
~ Ryu-ken - 1,050,000,000,000,000

Pan - 6,300,000,000,000

Trunks
~ Base - 2,940,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 7,350,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ Base - 67,200,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 168,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 210,000,000,000,000

Son Gohan
~ Base - 7,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 17,500,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 21,875,000,000,000

Son Goten
~ Base - 1,488,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 3,720,000,000,000

Gotenks (Hypothetical)
~ Base - 59,520,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 148,800,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3 - 297,600,000,000,000

Oob - 180,000,000,000,000

Kuririn - 1,000,000,000,000

Artificial Human #18 - 4,200,000,000,000

Yakon - 1,600,000,000,000

General Rild - 7,250,000,000,000

Freeza-24,000,000,000,000

Cell - 25,000,000,000,000

Artificial Human #17 - 4,600,000,000,000

Hell Fighter #17 - 70,000,000,000,000

Super #17
~ Initial - 315,000,000,000,000
~ Final Shine absorbed - 420,000,000,000,000
~Goku's ki - 607,500,000,000,000
~ SS4 Goku's ki - 1,357,500,000,000,000
~ 10x Kamehameha absorbed - 2,857,500,000,000,000
~ #18's Ki - 2,859,600,000,000,000

Evil Dragon Arc

Son Goku
~ Base - 150,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 375,000,000,000,000
~ Base, heavily weakened - 750,000,000
~ Base, Post-Qi battle - 1,000,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 4 - 1,500,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 4, loss of Shoki/Yuuki - 1,000,000,000,000,000
~ 10x Kamehameha - 3,000,000,000,000,000
~ Beyond Limits - 6,000,000,000,000,000
~ Ryu-ken - 60,000,000,000,000,000
~ Post-Fusion SS4- 4,500,000,000,000,000
~ Beyond Limits Base - 4,000,000,000,000,000
~ Genki-Dama - 120,000,000,000,000,000

Pan
~ Initial - 12,600,000,000,000
~ Weakened - 1,260,000,000
~ Enraged - 2,520,000,000
~ Heavily weakened - 630,000,000
~ Post-Wu battle - 126,000,000,000,000
~ Post-Liu battle - 210,000,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ Base - 105,000,000,000,000
~ Oozaru - 1,050,000,000,000,000
~ Golden Oozaru - 2,625,000,000,000,000
~ Beyond Limits Super Saiyan 4 - 6,000,000,000,000,000
~ Post-Fusion SS4 - 4,800,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 4, weakened - 4,500,000,000,000,000
~ Beyond Limits Base - 1,280,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 3,200,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 4,000,000,000,000,000

Son Gohan
~ Base - 7,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 17,500,000,000,000

Son Goten
~ Base - 2,940,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 7,350,000,000,000

Trunks
~ Base - 2,940,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 7,350,000,000,000

Oob - 225,000,000,000,000

Gogeta
~ Base - 9,000,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 22,500,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 28,125,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3 - 45,000,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 4 - 135,000,000,000,000,000

Kuririn
~ Base - 1,000,000,000,000
~ Old Meng's Manly GAINZ - 200,000,000,000,000,000

Piccolo - 94,500,000,000,000

Liang Xing Long - 800,000,000

Wu Xing Long
~ Initial - 21,500,000,000,000
~ Powered up - 215,000,000,000,000
~ Giant form, 50% - 430,000,000,000,000
~ Giant form, 100% - 860,000,000,000,000

Liu Xing Long - 135,000,000,000,000

Qi Xing Long-
~ Mole form - 625,000,000,000,000
~ Pan form - 835,000,000,000,000
~ True form - 500,000,000,000,000

Si Xing Long
~ 1st form - 1,160,000,000,000,000
~ True form - 1,450,000,000,000,000
~ Revived - 5,075,000,000,000,000
~ Heat Dome - 50,750,000,000,000,000

San Xing Long - 1,100,000,000,000,000

Yi Xing Long
~ Base  - 4,000,000,000,000,000
~ Super Yi Xing Long - 6,000,000,000,000,000
~ Super Yi Xing Long, full power - 56,000,000,000,000,000
~ Minus Energy Power Ball - 70,000,000,000,000,000
~ 6 Dragon Balls - 48,000,000,000,000,000

Hypothetical Transformations

Super Saiyan 4 Gohan - 60,000,000,000,000,000

Super Saiyan 4 Goten/Trunks - 62,500,000,000,000,000

Super Saiyan 4 Pan - 65,000,000,000,000,000

Vegetto
~ Base - 22,500,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 56,250,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 70,312,500,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3 - 112,500,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 4 - 140,000,000,000,000,000

Gotenks
~ Base - 117,600,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 294,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3 - 588,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 4 - 125,000,000,000,000,000

100 years later

Son Goku Jr.
~ Initial - 2
~ Enraged - 10
~ Powered up - 20
~ Super Saiyan - 1,000
~ Base, trained - 50,000
~ Super Saiyan, trained - 2,500,000

Pan - 210,000,000,000,000

Puck-3

Bear - 20

Mamba-12

Yoma-o - 30

Vegeta Jr.
~ Base - 50,000
~ Super Saiyan - 2,500,000

Son Goku - 125,000,000,000,000,000

---

Short Notes:

* I don't consider the 10x Kamehameha as a 10x boost primarily as the feats during the battles it's used for blatantly contradict that, unless assuming absolutely everyone in GT as God tier plot armour.
* There's nothing really behind the level I gave Kuririn. Just providing some respect to the Old Meng he beat Galu.
* I place Beyond Limits SS4 Gogeta above a hypothetical SS4 Gotenks despite the sons' potential due to the Perfect Files describing him as having "limitless power" and the "strongest warrior in all dimensions", making he and Vegetto the pinnacle as far as GT's continuity is concerned.
* Post-Training Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr's levels are based on the fact they can freely use SSJ and the fact that Goku Jr. had trained after the TV Special events with Pan going by her statement.

---

Pan gets over 99% weaker just from being dehydrated??

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

I care about GT

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Pan gets over 99% weaker just from being dehydrated??

That's what feats imply, unless believing Gill was actually far stronger than we give him credit for to fend off the arthropods she couldn't fight against.

I care about GT

I mean, if we bring Super up as a comparison, I'd stan GT 24/7 too 2.

 

[SIAD]

How would you place your new numbers, considering that Goku SSJ3 (BoGT)> Gohan Base (BoGT)> = Gohan Ultimate (Boo)?

It occurs to me that maybe you can have the SSJ2 = SSJ X2 and the SSJ3 = SSJ2 X2 again.

It would suit you very well, since that way you would not have to increase the power of Goku Base and SSJ much in BoGT.

To keep SBV1> Vegetto SSJB (Boo)> = Baby Vegeta Base, you only need to have the multiplier Vegetto SSJ (Boo) = 50x Vegetto Base (Boo).

It may also be a good idea to slightly widen the gap between Goku SSJ4 (Initial) and SSJ4 (FP), in order to have Goku Base (Arc Super # 17)> Vegetto SSJ (Boo).

Maybe you could also have the Kamehameha x10 again as an amplified attack x10 in order to have Omega Yi Xing Long more or less at the same level as Goku SSJG (Vs Beerus). Keep in mind that Goku Base (Post God) is >>>>> Vegeta SSJ2 (Enraged)> Beerus (Completely Suppressed)> Vegetto SSJ3 (BoS) >>> Vegetto SSJ3 (Boo). DBGT being Anime should be compared in terms of feats to DBS Anime.

 

[SIAD]

@Captain Cadaver So considering that you think Goku Base (Arc Super # 17) is> Vegetto SSJ3 (Boo). How would you have your list now? What changes would you make?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Pretty much anyone of Super Vegeta Baby's level and beyond would get boosted to some degree, though by how much I can't say until I have the time and effort to change them.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

Is Beerus a "1"?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Not in his full power form:

Spoiler

 

[SIAD]

When you have time @Captain Cadaver

I will be looking forward to seeing your edited numbers.

 

[SIAD]

It is shown that Baby Vegeta Golden Monkey was clearly affected by Goku SSJ4's Kamehameha x10 (Initial), since Vegeta's body was injured by that attack, however Baby Vegeta was able to stand for a moment after receiving that attack.

Goku SSJ4 (FP) when throwing a Kamehameha, sent Baby Vegeta Golden Monkey flying.

So Goku SSJ4 (FP) is> Goku SSJ4 (Initial) Kamehameha x10?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

That would seem to be the case, though it's worth noting Goku's 10x Kamehameha may have been imperfect at that point, if even the 10x version seeing as it lacked the iconic red colour.

 

[SIAD]

That would seem to be the case, though it's worth noting Goku's 10x Kamehameha may have been imperfect at that point, if even the 10x version seeing as it lacked the iconic red colour.

I was thinking that on your list you could have:

Vegetto SSJ (Boo) = 160,000,000,000,000
SSJ2 = 320,000,000,000,000
SSJ3 = 1,280,000,000,000,000

Golden Monkey Goku = 800,000,000,000,000
SSJ4 (Initial) = 5,000,000,000,000,000
SSJ4 (Kamehameha x10) = 12,000,000,000,000,000
SSJ4 (FP) = 15,000,000,000,000,000

Baby Vegeta Base = 105,000,000,000,000
SBV1 = 262,500,000,000,000
SBV2 = 525,000,000,000,000
Golden Monkey = 5,250,000,000,000,000

Arc Super #17:

Goku Base = 1,500,000,000,000,000

Vegeta Base = 525,000,000,000,000

You would have SBV2 = Vegeta Base (Post Baby).

The powers that scale with Goku SSJ4 (FP) will multiply x10.

What do you think @Captain Cadaver ?

 

[Papasmurf]

That would seem to be the case, though it's worth noting Goku's 10x Kamehameha may have been imperfect at that point, if even the 10x version seeing as it lacked the iconic red colour.

I don't think the color signifies anything since Galu is still seen using blue KHHs against Super Yi Xing Long. It just seems like Toei decided to make the KHH red in its 10x iteration starting in the S17 arc, but couldn't stay consistent with it all the way. It's also worth noting that video games like Transformation and BT1 have colored the 10x KHH blue/white as well.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

When Rild accuses Goku of not even using half his power, Goku says Rild has been doing the same. Shouldn’t this mean Metal Rild > SSJ Goku? Hyper Mega Rild is > Base Goku, after all.

 

[SSJ2]

Goku says Rild was holding back, not that he was holding back by the same amount.