Theory about UI Sing Goku (Current) = UI Goku.

[SIAD]

Theory about UI Sing Goku (Current) = UI Goku.

It's just a theory. Moro when he was fighting Suppressed against UI Sing Goku were on the same level of fighting. Then Moro starts to fight more seriously, he comments that he surpasses the power of the Gods.

Because he just turned on the first time he made that statement, if from the beginning he surpassed all the Kaioshins? Even if we know that Dai Kaioshin was initially really powerful, it still didn't even come close to the power of UI Sing Goku. Could it be that Moro (First Ignition against UI Sing Goku) has surpassed the Gods of Destruction?

We can also consider that Vegeta knew that Goku with Ultra Instinct had not been able to fight Moro, despite knowing the power of UI Goku. However, Vegeta thought he could defeat him. Later in Moro's fight against Vegeta, the latter was not impressed when he saw Moro's new power. Vegeta had no way of knowing that Moro had defeated UI Sing Goku, instead of UI Goku.

We can also wonder why Beerus didn't care about Moro's new power? The answer could be because Beerus lately has not shown any interest in what happens in the Universe. He doesn't care about Broly's power.

Also check the Manga, Gohan and Piccolo stopped following the movements of Goku and Jiren, when the first was in UI state, while the second was Beyond The Limits. Instead in the Arc Current, when UI Sing Goku appeared and hit Sabango, neither Piccolo nor Gohan could see him and they wondered how powerful Goku has become. Maybe Goku when training with Merus made his UI Sing and UI states much more powerful than before, also he has better control of the UI Sing form.

Although if this theory were to be true, we would have:

Whis >> Merus >> Moro (OG73-)> Moro (FP) = UI Sing Goku (Beyond Limits)> Moro (First Power On)> Beerus> = Moro (Initial) = UI Sing Goku (Current) = UI Goku (ToP).

We would simply have to consider the difference of Whis would be more than 1.5x Beerus, but it would not be strange considering how red the scale of the Movies is.

What do you think?

 

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[mention]Captain Cadaver[/mention]

 

[Captain Cadaver]

For Moro's statement, Beerus' complete disinterest says it all about how they compare. Using Broly as an example isn't really equal when it never reached a point Goku and Vegeta couldn't handle things, whereas it was apparent to Beerus the Dragon Team stood little chance against Moro in their current condition and the latter would eventually be someone Beerus may have to deal with. If Moro were indeed on Beerus' level, Beerus would have no reason not to deal with this problem then and there.

For Vegeta's knowledge of Goku using UI, there are many things to factor in, such as if Vegeta was aware Goku could use it any better at the ToP (in which Moro may have been able to outlast it through his magic) or if he knew the proper terminology of the two different forms. Comparing Gohan and Piccolo's reactions here doesn't exactly work when considering up until Jiren went beyond his limits, the fight was very one-sided and didn't really have the fighters moving rapidly around the area when it was mainly a short range melee until that point, with even Kuririn and Tenshinhan being able to keep up with it. This is also pretty inconsistent when Kuririn couldn't keep up SSJ Goku's movements against Hit and noted he was getting out of shape just before the ToP. Unless you believe Kuririn's Ki and reactions suddenly became far greater in the short time until the ToP, this is clearly either circumstantial or a blatant inconsistency.

 

[SIAD]

For Moro's statement, Beerus' complete disinterest says it all about how they compare. Using Broly as an example isn't really equal when it never reached a point Goku and Vegeta couldn't handle things, whereas it was apparent to Beerus the Dragon Team stood little chance against Moro in their current condition and the latter would eventually be someone Beerus may have to deal with. If Moro were indeed on Beerus' level, Beerus would have no reason not to deal with this problem then and there.

For Vegeta's knowledge of Goku using UI, there are many things to factor in, such as if Vegeta was aware Goku could use it any better at the ToP (in which Moro may have been able to outlast it through his magic) or if he knew the proper terminology of the two different forms. Comparing Gohan and Piccolo's reactions here doesn't exactly work when considering up until Jiren went beyond his limits, the fight was very one-sided and didn't really have the fighters moving rapidly around the area when it was mainly a short range melee until that point, with even Kuririn and Tenshinhan being able to keep up with it. This is also pretty inconsistent when Kuririn couldn't keep up SSJ Goku's movements against Hit and noted he was getting out of shape just before the ToP. Unless you believe Kuririn's Ki and reactions suddenly became far greater in the short time until the ToP, this is clearly either circumstantial or a blatant inconsistency.

Everything you say is true. Still do you think Moro can have something like 90% of Beerus's total power?

And a question nothing to do, do you think that the first increase in power Jiren had against Hit, was an increase of 1.15x?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Everything you say is true. Still do you think Moro can have something like 90% of Beerus's total power?

Considering the absolute indifference Beerus had towards him and Goku's power increasing from the ToP in UI being dubious right now, I'd doubt Moro measures up to even 80% of his power. I wouldn't say it's impossible though, depending how the arc progresses.

And a question nothing to do, do you think that the first increase in power Jiren had against Hit, was an increase of 1.15x?

Considering how easily Jiren shrugged off Time Lag after he powered up, I'd say at least 1.25x.

 

[SIAD]

Everything you say is true. Still do you think Moro can have something like 90% of Beerus's total power?

Considering the absolute indifference Beerus had towards him and Goku's power increasing from the ToP in UI being dubious right now, I'd doubt Moro measures up to even 80% of his power. I wouldn't say it's impossible though, depending how the arc progresses.

And a question nothing to do, do you think that the first increase in power Jiren had against Hit, was an increase of 1.15x?

Considering how easily Jiren shrugged off Time Lag after he powered up, I'd say at least 1.25x.

And another question, what gap do you have between Vegeta SSJBE, Goku Pseudo Kaioken and Gohan (All of the ToP). If Gohan has a power of 1, how much power do you give the other 2?

And by the way, Kefla SSJ is stronger than Jiren (On against Jiren)?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

SSBE Vegeta - 1.56
Pseudo-Kaioken PSSB Goku - 1.25

 

[SIAD]

SSBE Vegeta - 1.56
Pseudo-Kaioken PSSB Goku - 1.25

And by the way, Kefla SSJ is stronger than Jiren (On against Jiren)?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

She should be stronger than the version of him that beat Hit based on Vados' comment, but far weaker than any of his power ups after that.

 

[SIAD]

It's a bit hard for me to have Goku SSJB Pseudo Kaioken> Gohan> = Kefla SSJ> = Jiren (On against Hit) >> Jiren (Initial).

The difference between Jiren on Hit and Goku PSSJB seemed very similar to Raditz on Goku and Piccolo? Or is that difference not so great?