There is no official canon

[Pocket-Gog~]

This is something that's been bugging me, but all the statements of this is canon and this isn't is annoying. Particularly so when you realize what's technically the official canon in the franchise, namely none.

Nobody has ever come forward, not Akira Toriyama, not Toei, not Shueisha, and stated "this here is canon, everything else here is non canon and is essentially extra fluff". Nothing of the sorts has ever actually happened to Dragon Ball, as it has been for other franchises. Canon, and what is not canon, until something changes is simply what you want.

 

[xmysticgohanx]

They don't need to

The manga is canon because that's obvious. Super is canon because they said so which makes BoG and RoF not canon anymore. Jaco is canon because it's referenced in Super and Jaco is there obv. DB- is canon because it is a part of Jaco. That's it.

Just take all the confirmed stuff and you don't need them to explicitly say what is and isn't

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

They don't need to

The manga is canon because that's obvious. Super is canon because they said so which makes BoG and RoF not canon anymore. Jaco is canon because it's referenced in Super and Jaco is there obv. DB- is canon because it is a part of Jaco. That's it.

Just take all the confirmed stuff and you don't need them to explicitly say what is and isn't

But your proving my point, you're saying what's canon for you and what's not canon. Also which version of the manga are you referring to the original WSJ/Tankobon version or the Kanzenban edition, which features corrections and a new ending?

Why aren't ROF and BOG canon, over the ROF and BOG arc, they where scripted by Akira Toriyama and touted as official continuations of the manga. And for your last part, there isn't any confirmed stuff, at most all we have is GT being a side story to the original story, and even then that doesn't mean it's non canon.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Toriyama's product is what "canon" period.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

Toriyama's product is what "canon" period.

You're only stating what you believe to be canon, you're only proving my point.

 

[SSJ2]

Yeah there's nothing official.

My personal canon is the manga only.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Toriyama's product is what "canon" period.

You're only stating what you believe to be canon, you're only proving my point.

Nope, the original story is the canon and there's no need to deny it.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

Toriyama's product is what "canon" period.

You're only stating what you believe to be canon, you're only proving my point.

Nope, the original story is the canon and there's no need to deny it.

Well then which version of the manga are you referring to the original WSJ/Tankobon version or the Kanzenban edition, which features corrections and a new ending?

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

You're only stating what you believe to be canon, you're only proving my point.

Nope, the original story is the canon and there's no need to deny it.

Well then which version of the manga are you referring to the original WSJ/Tankobon version or the Kanzenban edition, which features corrections and a new ending?

The one that Toriyama produced/drew.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

Nope, the original story is the canon and there's no need to deny it.

Well then which version of the manga are you referring to the original WSJ/Tankobon version or the Kanzenban edition, which features corrections and a new ending?

The one that Toriyama produced/drew.

And just like that you only continue to prove my point. They both are the ones he produced and drew, ones just updated.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Nobody has ever come forward, not Akira Toriyama, not Toei, not Shueisha, and stated "this here is canon, everything else here is non canon and is essentially extra fluff".

Toriyama did actually refer to GT as nothing more than a "fun side story", so...

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

Nobody has ever come forward, not Akira Toriyama, not Toei, not Shueisha, and stated "this here is canon, everything else here is non canon and is essentially extra fluff".

Toriyama did actually refer to GT as nothing more than a "fun side story", so...

A side story is literally a story that exists alongside the main story. Also crap baskets:

Toriyama doesn't refer to it as a Fun Side Story, he refers to it as a Grand side story.

And even if he did refer to it as a fun side story, that still does not mean it's non canon.

 

[ahill1]

I don't even know exactly the definition of Canon. If that's what we use in a debate, then is it okay to use filler? Most people (me included) dismiss other's arguments when it's based on anime-only things, that is, when such thing didn't happen in the manga.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

I don't even know exactly the definition of Canon. If that's what we use in a debate, then is it okay to use filler? Most people (me included) dismiss other's arguments when it's based on anime-only things, that is, when such thing didn't happen in the manga.

The definition of canon is essentially accepted as what happened, and non canonical is expected as what didn't happen. As such there is no canon in the franchise as nobody has ever stated what is canon or what isn't canon. So until something changes whatever you want is canon. You can technically use filler, but do you want to keep it towards feats that happened in the manga? Or not.

But cutting the bull shit, you can use filler feats, unless they conflict with something. Then it's up to you to pick and choose which feats you want to use.

 

[Zippy]

The cannon concept exists because there is shit in non-cannon that takes stuff from the original manga and takes a big shit on it.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

The cannon concept exists because there is shit in non-cannon that takes stuff from the original manga and takes a big shit on it.

Unfortunately there ain't no official canon, so you can pick and choose whatever the hell you want, even the bits that take stuff from the original manga and takes a big shit on it.

 

[ahill1]

I don't even know exactly the definition of Canon. If that's what we use in a debate, then is it okay to use filler? Most people (me included) dismiss other's arguments when it's based on anime-only things, that is, when such thing didn't happen in the manga.

The definition of canon is essentially accepted as what happened, and non canonical is expected as what didn't happen. As such there is no canon in the franchise as nobody has ever stated what is canon or what isn't canon. So until something changes whatever you want is canon. You can technically use filler, but do you want to keep it towards feats that happened in the manga? Or not.

But cutting the bull shit, you can use filler feats, unless they conflict with something. Then it's up to you to pick and choose which feats you want to use.

I searched about this subject in a site named "Kami Sama Explorer" (the better one regarding Dragon Ball here in my country). It's basically said NON CANON are all of the scenes, sagas, mini sagas that aren't in the manga, as well as movies, TV Specials, OVAs and etc. Filler would be complete episodes created with the purpose of preventing the anime from reaching the manga or basically to make "more money" with the success of the series. Extra scenes, movies, GT, OVAs aren't exactly fillers, but NON CANON stuff, which is therefore a more embracing concept.

These moments aren't considered in the chronology mainly by the errors and contradictions created by them, like:

---Dr. Frappé, who appears in a chapter of the anime Dragon Ball, being the alleged creator of the Android #8. However, many years later Akira created Dr. Gero, the scientist who created all the Androids of the Red Ribbon forces (including #8). Dr. Frappé does not exist in the manga.

---Goku using the machine built by one of the ogres in hell to jump up high and be back to the serpent's path. However, Goku could very well fly at that moment. Even worse, he said something like "I am flying," as if it were news to him.

---Goku having a nightmare with the Saiyajins Nappa and Vegeta attacking Chi Chi and Gohan while standing in the Palace of the Serpent Princess. However, Goku had never seen the Saiyans.

---Piccolo Jr. complied with Chi Chi's orders after she threatened her husband and him not to give them food if they did not learn to drive. However, the Nameks do not need to eat, they only drink water.


The authors' participation in the creation of the anime is pretty minimal going off by what Eiichiro Oda (creator of One Piece) said (regarding the One Piece animated series):

TOEI and its editor are responsible for almost everything, and even the characters' personalities are their responsibilities. In fillers, for example, Luffy/Goku might have a different personality compared to the story presented in the manga, being of extreme importance that the editor responsible for creating the anime understands the universe created by the mangaká.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Nobody has ever come forward, not Akira Toriyama, not Toei, not Shueisha, and stated "this here is canon, everything else here is non canon and is essentially extra fluff".

Toriyama did actually refer to GT as nothing more than a "fun side story", so...

A side story is literally a story that exists alongside the main story. Also crap baskets:

Toriyama doesn't refer to it as a Fun Side Story, he refers to it as a Grand side story.
And even if he did refer to it as a fun side story, that still does not mean it's non canon.

Notice how I didn't specifically make mention to canon with my post though. My response would be more to do with the fact that Toriyama's statement causes GT to fit into the "extra fluff" analogy in your post.

 

[Future Warrior]

To be fair, Toriyama did say that you could consider GT to be a continuation of the manga if you liked it.

鳥山明
Akira Toriyama"

its a perfect way to look at Dragon ball GT. For people who dont want it to be the real end to the dragon ball story, it is just a "side story" and for those who love it it can be part of the grand final story. Incredible that I had forgot about this.

 

[xmysticgohanx]

They don't need to

The manga is canon because that's obvious. Super is canon because they said so which makes BoG and RoF not canon anymore. Jaco is canon because it's referenced in Super and Jaco is there obv. DB- is canon because it is a part of Jaco. That's it.

Just take all the confirmed stuff and you don't need them to explicitly say what is and isn't

But your proving my point, you're saying what's canon for you and what's not canon. Also which version of the manga are you referring to the original WSJ/Tankobon version or the Kanzenban edition, which features corrections and a new ending?

Why aren't ROF and BOG canon, over the ROF and BOG arc, they where scripted by Akira Toriyama and touted as official continuations of the manga. And for your last part, there isn't any confirmed stuff, at most all we have is GT being a side story to the original story, and even then that doesn't mean it's non canon.

Reread my post. I only use the confirmed stuff. Unlike what some people say, there are confirmed stuff. Interestingly enough, only fans of db struggle with this. One piece, HxH, etc, fans all recognize what is canon.

The kanzenban is because it is the newest one. It retconned the original. The full color is not because those aren't the color toriyama uses. Toriyama use blue bulma and blue trunks. Using the newest version of previous canon are standard rules for determining canon. The star wars fandom do this reluctantly, marvel does it, dc does it, etc. This doesn't apply to the anime because it is an adaption which has been said officially.

I explained why RoF and BoG aren't canon anymore. Super is canon now. Since it is the newest version of what went on, the movies are retconned.