Tired Majin Vegeta vs Fat Buu (Initial Power)

[FeatsofPower]

Gohan is terrified of Buu's initial power, yet Vegeta thinks it's a joke. Gohan also thinks that Buu isn't all that terrible of a threat, if he could unleash his full power.

Do you guys feel like Majin Vegeta, even as exhausted as he is, which by calculations should be Majin Vegeta - Ssj2 Gohan = Fatigued Majin Vegeta, shouldn't he be able to still handle Buu?

I don't get the feeling Vegeta needs a sensu bean to deal with Buu as he is, and Gohan does seem to downplay him quite a bit.

What do you guys think?

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Battle damaged Vegeta would be able to defeat him as he was far ahead of Gohan as stated by himself but would end up exhausted as Gohan vs Cell because all of the stamina lost.

I just ain't sure whether Gohan could actually do it taken into account his tricky regeneration.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Battle damaged Vegeta would be able to defeat him as he was far ahead of Gohan as stated by himself but would end up exhausted as Gohan vs Cell because all of the stamina lost.

Majin Vegeta being well over 2x Gohan?

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Majin Vegeta being well over 2x Gohan?

No, what implies that?

 

[FeatsofPower]

Because you said Tired Majin Vegeta > Initial Buu

didbyou check the equation I put in the post?

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Because you said Tired Majin Vegeta > Initial Buu

didbyou check the equation I put in the post?

I just don't know what kind of reasoning you're wanting to get with that.

Is it said that Fatigued Majin Vegeta is Majin Vegeta - SSJ2 Gohan power? If it is by that formula, for sure Vegeta end up being weaker than Buu.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Is it said that Fatigued Majin Vegeta is Majin Vegeta - SSJ2 Gohan power? If it is by that formula, for sure Vegeta end up being weaker than Buu.

You just disagreed with yourself. You just said that Majin Vegeta should be able to beat Buu, but now when you see how the math would look, you disagree.

Logically, you should reverse this thinking. You should assume what you believe is true and then allow for the math to account for that truth.


Majin Vegeta 150
Fatigued Vegeta 90
Majin Buu 80
Gohan 60

That wasn't so bad.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

I don't have Majin Vegeta that much stronger than Gohan, at most:

Majin Vegeta = 100
Gohan= 73
Majin Vegeta fatigued (hypothetical)= 27

Buu is pretty close to Gohan's full power. Also the usage of this formula is quite subjective. I still think Vegeta would win hardly, but would do it.

 

[FeatsofPower]

I don't have Majin Vegeta that much stronger than Gohan, at most:

Majin Vegeta = 100
Gohan= 73
Majin Vegeta fatigued (hypothetical)= 27

Buu is pretty close to Gohan's full power. Also the usage of this formula is quite subjective. I still think Vegeta would win hardly, but would do it.

You think Teen Gohan is 73% of Goku? How does that work? Vegeta himself is lucky enough to be that close to Goku? How do you get Gohan that close?

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

You think Teen Gohan is 73% of Goku? How does that work? Vegeta himself is lucky enough to be that close to Goku? How do you get Gohan that close?

All we know is that Gohan is far weaker than his CG self and a 25% gap is a stomp considering Kkx3 Goku vs Vegeta, I think something like this can work:

Buu Saga Goku/Majin Vegeta = 100
Kid Gohan = 93
Vegeta pre boost = 83
Gohan = 73

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

@Goku9001

 

[FeatsofPower]

All we know is that Gohan is far weaker than his CG self and a 25% gap is a stomp considering Kkx3 Goku vs Vegeta, I think something like this can work:

Vegeta said he couldn’t close the gap in the 7 years.

 

[Symbiote]

Vegeta said he couldn’t close the gap in the 7 years.

Is that not why he took the Majin boost?

 

[FeatsofPower]

Is that not why he took the Majin boost?

Indeed. Vegeta sold his soul to catch up with Goku. At the Cell Games, Vegeta was insurmountably behind Goku, that shouldn't have changed in the Buu Saga.

Vegeta should be 60-66% of Goku at best in the Cell Games and Buu Saga.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I don’t think the Goku/Vegeta gap really matters. 60% or 80%, Vegeta still can’t keep up with Goku. How’s he gonna be happy about that?

I had a talk about the Vegeta/Boo/Gohan thing with Goku9001 on Neo, and it doesn’t sound as straightforward as you think. Gohan loses half his power and still goes FP, Androids and Cell absorb Ki in a non-linear way. Stamina and absorption are both things that don’t work like power levels do.

 

[FeatsofPower]

I don’t think the Goku/Vegeta gap really matters. 60% or 80%, Vegeta still can’t keep up with Goku. How’s he gonna be happy about that?

I've usually went with that, but there's plenty of evidence to suggest the gap is still just the same.

Here's the issue. Do you think Vegeta closed the gap on Goku at all? You think he closed it a good portion, but didn't fully close it?

Gohan loses half his power and still goes FP, Androids and Cell absorb Ki in a non-linear way.

The Buu meter should be linear. Cell was absorbing bio-energy, literally absorbing flesh, blood, and bone, as well as infinite reactors.

I think the Buu meter should be 1 to 1, Badibi and co. seem to think so.

Perhaps Buu should be resurrected at the power needed to restore him?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I’m not sure if anything to be honest. This is just stuff I got debating Goku9001 on this. Would be interesting if he showed up.

 

[FeatsofPower]

I’m not sure if anything to be honest. This is just stuff I got debating Goku9001 on this. Would be interesting if he showed up.

I would always assume something is 1 to 1 unless otherwise specified.

I think Gero absorbs energy on a 1 to 1 level, which makes one believe Super Saiyan is a 10x boost. That's how the author envisioned it and it shows in his predicitons.

Super Saiyan 3 is also likely a 10x boost, considering the whole Gotenks/Goku situations as well.

I just don't know if 10x works from a purely math perspective though. Like it probably won't work for the kids if they are too weak.

 

[Goku9001]

Gohan is terrified of Buu's initial power, yet Vegeta thinks it's a joke. Gohan also thinks that Buu isn't all that terrible of a threat, if he could unleash his full power.

Do you guys feel like Majin Vegeta, even as exhausted as he is, which by calculations should be Majin Vegeta - Ssj2 Gohan = Fatigued Majin Vegeta, shouldn't he be able to still handle Buu?

I don't get the feeling Vegeta needs a sensu bean to deal with Buu as he is, and Gohan does seem to downplay him quite a bit.

What do you guys think?

Not necessarily. Buu's meter is restored using ki, not power and there isn't a 1:1 relationship between ki and power. Both Goku and Vegeta could have easily lost 60% of their ki while retaining 70% of their power, for instance. After all, Gohan lost over half of his ki which continued to drop during the KHH clash with Cell and he was still capable of mustering his full power. During Goku's battle with Cell, Goku still maintained the majority of his power even after exerting a significant amount of ki albeit his power reached the point where it started to drop rapidly.

Look no further to Super Saiyan 3 where the transformation is treated as a joke because Goku's ki drops very quickly to the point where his power will start to increase very early on. Even then, Goku clearly maintained his power for a notable period of time against Kid Buu whose stamina never drops, period. Goku uses Super Saiyan 1 and 2 more often because his power doesn't diminish nearly as quickly which would imply that simply exhausting ki doesn't reduce power. If it did, Super Saiyan 1 and 2 wouldn't be treated as viable forms.

 

[FeatsofPower]

After all, Gohan lost over half of his ki which continued to drop during the KHH clash with Cell and he was still capable of mustering his full power.

This doesn’t mean what you think it does. It’s possible Gohan never achieved full power again and was only able to unleash a full powered blast as well as well as the option his rage is what allowed him to restore himself temporarily to his full power.

If Goku and Vegeta lost 30% of their power, they can only access 70% of their power.

Piccolo undoubtedly lost power after losing his arm against Raditz, yet he was able to muster another full power blast, yet not another.

Your understanding of how these events transpired are crucial to this discussion where I find plenty of issues here to counter your premise.