To end this debate: was Gohan a SSJ or SSJ2 against Dabra?

[Papasmurf]

They have Toriyama interviews as bonuses in every volume. I've yet to go asking around if he partook in the coloring process itself.

 

[Emmeth]

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…

Why would Goku say this to Gohan if he was fighting as a SSJ2 that entire time?

 

[Six Trails]

So why Vegeta did not know how strong Gohan ( Enranged ) would be if Enranged is his SSJ2?

I never said enraged is Gohan's Super Saiyan 2. Haven't you already seen my explanation in the past?

So you believe in an Enranged Boost?

I do, but I don't think it's a set 1.5x or 2x boost or so like most do. 'Enraged' Gohan can be anywhere from Super Saiyan 2 Teen Gohan to stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Goku/Vegeta, since Gohan's rage is so unpredictable.

I still believe Gohan was SS1 against Dabra, though.

 

[Clearin]

"To end this debate"



I think he was a Super Saiyan cos he was drawn as a Super Saiyan.

 

[Pakl]

I dont think he was SSjin

I know he was because its shown and the dialouge implies so...

 

[ahill1]

I never said enraged is Gohan's Super Saiyan 2. Haven't you already seen my explanation in the past?

So you believe in an Enranged Boost?

I do, but I don't think it's a set 1.5x or 2x boost or so like most do. 'Enraged' Gohan can be anywhere from Super Saiyan 2 Teen Gohan to stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Goku/Vegeta, since Gohan's rage is so unpredictable.

I still believe Gohan was SS1 against Dabra, though.

Do you think Gohan (enranged) in the Cell Games was his SSJ2? Or he had an Enranged boost on top of his SSJ2?

 

[Six Trails]

He may have gotten one at the end of the beam struggle with Cell, but the Gohan that fought Cell and was compared to Majin Vegeta does not have any extra rage power in my opinion.

My point is his rage is unpredictable. Against Raditz, he became 1,307x stronger, against Freeza, he became about ~3x stronger, and again against Freeza he became maybe like 4x stronger or so (the specific number isn't important here). Rage pushes Gohan to Super Saiyan 2 and can also give him extra power, but not always.

 

[Pointer]

He was certainly ssj


No lightnings = ssj

 

[ahill1]

He may have gotten one at the end of the beam struggle with Cell, but the Gohan that fought Cell and was compared to Majin Vegeta does not have any extra rage power in my opinion.

My point is his rage is unpredictable. Against Raditz, he became 1,307x stronger, against Freeza, he became about ~3x stronger, and again against Freeza he became maybe like 4x stronger or so (the specific number isn't important here). Rage pushes Gohan to Super Saiyan 2 and can also give him extra power, but not always.

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…

Do you think Gohan mean his SSJ2 here ?

 

[Six Trails]

His Super Saiyan 2 + rage power, since his regular SS2 wouldn't be stronger than Goku.

 

[ahill1]

His Super Saiyan 2 + rage power, since his regular SS2 wouldn't be stronger than Goku.

But if we're talking of Goku, Gohan would have to be stronger than Goku SSJ3.

Also Goku said: "remember when you defeated Cell? Do like that "... so you're implying that Gohan had indeed a rage boost in the Cell Games ... a bit contradictory.

Besides this Gohan was not sure if his "true power" would be enough to beat Fat Boo ( Initial ), while Vegeta laughed at his power; this kinda implie that Majin Vegeta SSJ2 is stronger than Gohan ( true power ).

 

[p123]

Wouldn't it be odd to refer to a simple SSJ2 boost as true power and all of this shit?

 

[Lightsworn]

They also never referred to Gohan simply surpassing the Super Saiyan wall in any of their statements.

"Get angry and unleash all of your power to surpass the Super Saiyan wall Gohan and no one can beat you"

Doesn't really make much sense if he was referring to only Super Saiyan 2. One because Gohan already did it effortlessly with no anger at the Budokai and also because it would be a lie. If Goku is stronger than SSJ Gohan, than he would also be stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Gohan, yet Goku states he'll surpass him and Vegeta himself doubts his superiority if Gohan were to get angry.

 

[Six Trails]

But if we're talking of Goku, Gohan would have to be stronger than Goku SSJ3.

I guess Gohan's rage exceeds SS3 Goku when fully drawn out.

Also Goku said: "remember when you defeated Cell? Do like that "... so you're implying that Gohan had indeed a rage boost in the Cell Games ... a bit contradictory.

End of the beam struggle, like I already said.

Besides this Gohan was not sure if his "true power" would be enough to beat Fat Boo ( Initial ), while Vegeta laughed at his power; this kinda implie that Majin Vegeta SSJ2 is stronger than Gohan ( true power ).

For once I go with p123's explanation, that Gohan is able to beat initial Fat Boo, but is worried about his ability to bring out his full power.

@Lightsworn, I agree that enraged Gohan > Goku > Vegeta > normal Gohan, I just don't agree that enraged Gohan is one specific level.

 

[p123]

Yea, in the manga, it seems that Gohan is being a bit condescending towards Buu's ability. Kaioshin is a wreck and falling to pieces and Gohan is all like wut?

Clearly Gohan is fucked because he's much weaker at the time and the chance of him unleashing his true power is unlikely, but he doesn't seem all that threatened.

Honestly, Gohan's point of view falls in line with Vegeta's, just done differently. Damn...

 

[SSJ2]

Wouldn't it be odd to refer to a simple SSJ2 boost as true power and all of this shit?

Well considering it seemed that he couldn't access that power, I'd say no.

 

[p123]

Seeing how he just accessed it earlier and how it's addressed, it's hard man.


1) Kaioshin talks about it not being his full power.
2) Kaioshin talks about why they are so composed ( SSJ2 power )


And so on.


Wouldn't they just say, hey Gohan surpass the Super Saiyan wall and you will win? Why is it always regarding his " true power " and not just surpassing the Super Saiyan wall?

 

[Ryuzaki]

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…

Why would Goku say this to Gohan if he was fighting as a SSJ2 that entire time?

Explained in my thread for the angry stuff.

 

[ahill1]

Seeing how he just accessed it earlier and how it's addressed, it's hard man.


1) Kaioshin talks about it not being his full power.
2) Kaioshin talks about why they are so composed ( SSJ2 power )


And so on.


Wouldn't they just say, hey Gohan surpass the Super Saiyan wall and you will win? Why is it always regarding his " true power " and not just surpassing the Super Saiyan wall?

So:

Gohan ( Boo Saga/ Enranged ) > Majin Vegeta/Goku SSJ2 > Gohan ( Cell Games/Enranged ) > Vegeta SSJ2 ( Pre Majin ) > Teen Gohan SSJ2 >= Dabra...

Something like this?

 

[p123]

Yea