TOEI Hax Explained

Pakl

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Due to lack of understanding, I am going to explain what the hax in the movies is, what's a true hax and what is a needed hax and also the misunderstood hax.

So I am going to start to explain what the hax is:

TOEI Hax is a term used to show what TOEI did in the non canon movies regarding strength of the characters that contradict the Manga. We will start with a normal TOEI Hax. A normal TOEI Hax is when a character in a movie is stronger than his manga self but that's mainly because it's based on the anime hax.

There are three movies that are main TOEI Haxed based on the Anime. Movie 9, Movie 12 and Movie 13.

In movie 9, there is Tenshinhan being able to fight Base Trunks. Something like that can never happen in the Manga, however it did happen in the anime. How? In the Cell Games, the humans were able to lay hits on the Cell Jrs and last better than in the Manga. So if they can lay hits on the Cell Jrs, it's no surprise Tenshinhan is able to hold his own against Base Trunks. Keep in mind movie 9 is based on the Cell Games too.

Another hax in the movie is Piccolo who can actually fight Bojack and doesn't seem too far from Trunks and Vegeta. In the Manga Piccolo is not close to Trunks and Vegeta (at least in my opinion) but in the anime he is shown giving a fight to a Cell Jr.

In movie 12, Goku is stated to have trained in other world and be stronger than Vegeta. That's all anime hax too because Goku gets more and more haxed as the arc goes on. In movie 12 though, Goku is not much different than his manga counterpart but probably just stronger than SSjin Gotenks (Pre) because he appeared long before movie 12. Goku also compares Fat Janemba to Fat Boo so he can't be much different. You have to realize that the hax for Goku in the Boo Arc happens only after the stronger characters appear. For example, Goku in episode 255 didn't get hax beyond SSjin Gotenks (Post Rosat) because the layter still didn't exist. Goku in the Gotenks-Boo filler still got beaten but he later got super haxed vs Pure Boo who is even stronger than SSjin Vegetto in the anime so Goku gets haxed and stronger than the stronger canon characters only after they appear. Therefore, Movie 12 Goku is at best just stronger than SSjin Gotenks (Pre). This is part of the misunderstood TOEI Hax that we will see later. The reason for Goku to be stronger in movie 12 is also because the movie probably intended Janemba to be at least as strong as Suppressed Evil Boo who fought SSjin Gotenks and since Goku is so much weaker than Evil Boo, they needed to give him some boost so you can say it's a needed hax too. That also disproved the whole Fat Janemba > Evil Boo bullshit which is a misunderstood hax.

Now for movie 13, it's a similar thing, the movie was revealed while SSjin Vegetto was beating up Gohan-Boo. The reason SSjin 3 Goku is so tough in the movie because it's based on the time he was so haxed in the Anime that he was able to survive Gohan-Boo as a freaking SSjin. Ultimate Gohan had already appeared so Goku got the extra hax and is now stronger than him. It's even evident in the Gotrenks-Boo filler than SSjin 3 Goku is at least relevant.

Those are all real hax that are based on the anime because the movies are based on the anime. I see many people saying movies are different than the anime and manga but it's not true. The movies AND anime are different than the manga except the needed hax that happens.

We are gonna talk about the needed hax that don't appear in the anime though. The needed hax happens in movie 2, movie 3, movie 7 and movie 12

In movie 2, we have Roshi beating up the Bio men who should logically be as strong as the Saibamen as they are clear rip off. This is a clear needed hax for the story as Roshi was never implied to get stronger in the anime. Piccolo also seems to get a needed hax because he doesn't seem to be so weak compared to Goku. However those needed hax don't contradict the main scaling of the movie. You have to keep in mind the main thing in the movies is the arc it follows. Movie 2 follows the Vegeta arc. Roshi and Piccolo getting a needed hax is mainly to be relevant to Goku but Goku is still the same one from his fight with Vegeta, the strength of the villain and Goku are still Vegeta arc based and this is the main thing. I say it because there are misunderstanding about the hax and people think a movie villian can suddenly be way way stronger than main series levels at his time which is not the case.

Movie 3 might be one of the biggest needed hax for example. Movie 3 was revealed between episodes 54 and 55. The highest power shown at that time was Monster Zarbon who was close to 30k. That's the main reason Goku was 30k+ because he surpasses the highest power shown at that time and that's all that matters. Plus he was mid training in his spaceship. Everyone else needs to be relevant to him so a needed hax happens. The movie was revealed just after Krillin got his power up from Saichorou so he should be in par with his initial power up state. the rest of the humans get a needed hax to be relevant to him and besides they were training at Kaio at this point. Gohan is stated to be 10k when the movie was released before he got his power up. Again, a needed hax in order to be relevant to Goku and Piccolo. You also have to remember the movie is based on the Namek arc and in the Anime, Zarbon states that Gohan and Krillin are stronger than the Namekians who were 3,000 so it's not surprising to see Gohan at 10k considering the fact that right after in the Ginyu Arc he is stated to surpass 10k. Again all that matters is the movie being based on the Namek arc so Goku is mid training given a battle power of 30k+ based on the series.

Now for movie 7, Goku is clearly stronger than Vegeta as he fights the strongest android. Again a needed hax due to the movie being based on the Imperfect Cell Arc and the obvious route TOEI seemed to have with Android 13 being as strong as Imperfect Cel (Initial) and Super 13 being as strong as Imperfect Cell (Post Humans) and Android 16 but it still doesn't contradict anything in terms of strength and the arc it follows. In fact, those needed hax are relevant to keep some characters to the main power of Goku or the villain due to the arc the movie follows.

Movie 12 was already explained by how Goku is haxed in the anime the more it goes and the fact Goku is so weak compared to Evil Boo

Now to misunderstood hax that are not really hax. It happens in movie 5, movie 6, movie 8, and movie 10

We will start with movie 5, there are some that claim that Base Goku in movie 5 is stronger than 100% Freeza because Coola says that Base Goku was enough to have defeated Freeza. However this is contradicted after Goku transforms into SSjin when Coola says he sees why Freeza was no match for him. People might say it doesn't contradict anything because it just means that SSjin Goku is >>>> Freeza while Base Goku was > Freeza. However, Goku used kaioken x10 and x20 and Cooler never said anything about Freeza being no match for Goku so I take his first statement about Base Goku as just beating Freeza overall because Base Goku is still strong enough to take out initial final form Freeza. You also have to keep in mind the movie villains are comparable or surpass the canon villains of their time and besides, new movie villains being stronger than the last ones is a fact which already disproves all the bullshit of Coola being 50x stronger than Freeza

Now for movie 6, people seem to thing that because Metal Coola said Goku got considerably stronger then it means M6 Base Goku > M5 Base Goku. First, Goku can be stronger in his base form. It doesn't mean Coola refers to his strongest form. Also, movies are based on the anime and follows a specific arc. Movie 6 is based on the Androids Arc meaning Goku and Vegeta should be as strong as they were in their fight vs Android 19.

The other thing is Movie 6 Piccolo being Kamiccolo so M6 Goku and Vegeta are stronger than Kamiccolo. While it's true Dende was the guardian, Piccolo is clearly not as strong as Kamiccolo because this part didn't exist. Hell, he was not even shown to be relevant to the SSjins in movie 6 probably because the movie was released just before he was beating up Android 20 and again the whole new movie villains being stronger than the last ones disprove it. Dende being the guardian in no way affects the levels of movie 6 as it's still the same as when they fought Android 19 and Android 20. Again, the main issue is the arc the movie follows and you can't have the main characters stronger than what he was during that arc.

In movie 8, people see, to to think M8 Goku is haxed or Gohan is nerfed. No, they are not. The movie follows the Perfect Cell Arc meaning they are all at that level. Gohan was not known to be the strongest because that happens in the next arc which is the Cell Games.

This might be one of the most annoying and bullshit misunderstood haxes ever. Gohan in movie 10

Years ago, people were saying Base Gohan in movie 10 is SSjin level because he was fighting SSjin Broli so it makes his SSjin 2 stronger than Canon SSjin 3 Goku. Thank god it's been thrown away years ago and 99% of the fandom don't go with it anymore. That's bullshit and that's because we have established that there are either haxes that are based on the anime haxes or there are needed hax for the sake of arc the movie foolows to sty relevant to Goku or the main point of story. What use is there for Gohan to be stronger? Gohan indeed states he powered up considerably since back then but back then is movie 8. We know in movie 8 that Gohan was barely in par with Trunks who was 1st Rosat ASSjin. At the time of movie 8 the highest power shown was USSjin Trunks so obviously Gohan powered up since movie 8. The Cell Games have no issue in his comment and before you say the Cell Games must have happened because Goku is dead in movie 10 and Gohan has SSjin 2 then I can tell you TOEI gives shit about continuity as evident in movie 6 that Goku has Shunkain-Ido but he didn't have it in movie 5.

The other point is that Gohan fights better than SSjin Trunks and Goten but again, it's bullshit. Toei always have the base saiyans start their fight in base to build up drama. We see it in movie 6, movie 7, movie 12, movie 13 etc... Gohan fights Dabura in base in the anime. Goten also seems stronger than Base Gohan as he evens out the beam struggle to stand still when they clashed with Broli's Omega Blaster. Plus, in the anime the kids are shown to be way below Gohan as SSjin Gohan one shotted SSjin Goten and was even able to fight him for a while in base. In movie 11, Android 18 wants her money from Satan for his win in the Tenkaichi Budokai, the same Budokai where Gohan was stated to get much weaker. Lol. Gohan also deflecting SSjin Broli's ki blast is bullshit as TOEI doesn't seem to care about those feats. Vegeta had his mouth bleeding from a punch from Semi Perfect Cell but was able to tank his Galickk Gun in the anime. A Cell Jr was able to caught Vegeta's Final Flash. SSjin 2 Goku deflected a huge blast from Pure Boo who seemed to put his full power in it but we know in the anime that SSjin 3 Goku was getting his ass kicked by Pure Boo so no

It's also possible since Movie 10 SSjin 2 Gohan is based on his transformation vs Kibito that TOEI had him in base so it's a similar transformation like in the budokai.

I think you should now be educated about what hax is. There is an hax based on the anime and a needed hax. The other haxes are not really haxes but ignorance of the fans
 

SSJ2

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The other thing is Movie 6 Piccolo being Kamiccolo so M6 Goku and Vegeta are stronger than Kamiccolo. While it's true Dende was the guardian, Piccolo is clearly not as strong as Kamiccolo because this part didn't exist. Hell, he was not even shown to be relevant to the SSjins in movie 6 probably because the movie was released just before he was beating up Android 20 and again the whole new movie villains being stronger than the last ones disprove it. Dende being the guardian in no way affects the levels of movie 6 as it's still the same as when they fought Android 19 and Android 20. Again, the main issue is the arc the movie follows and you can't have the main characters stronger than what he was during that arc.

I don't believe in beyond reasonable haxing of most movie characters unless there are justifiable statements to back it up. However, I don't know why you have such an issue with characters being stronger than their anime/manga counterparts when you have no issue with them being far weaker. Kamiccolo for example. If he is so much weaker than his manga counterpart, doesn't this kind of invalidate the mentality of looking for logic in movie power-scaling? Imo you should either accept both within reason or none at all.
 

Pakl

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Super Saiyan said:
The other thing is Movie 6 Piccolo being Kamiccolo so M6 Goku and Vegeta are stronger than Kamiccolo. While it's true Dende was the guardian, Piccolo is clearly not as strong as Kamiccolo because this part didn't exist. Hell, he was not even shown to be relevant to the SSjins in movie 6 probably because the movie was released just before he was beating up Android 20 and again the whole new movie villains being stronger than the last ones disprove it. Dende being the guardian in no way affects the levels of movie 6 as it's still the same as when they fought Android 19 and Android 20. Again, the main issue is the arc the movie follows and you can't have the main characters stronger than what he was during that arc.

I don't believe in beyond reasonable haxing of most movie characters unless there are justifiable statements to back it up. However, I don't know why you have such an issue with characters being stronger than their anime/manga counterparts when you have no issue with them being far weaker. Kamiccolo for example. If he is so much weaker than his manga counterpart, doesn't this kind of invalidate the mentality of looking for logic in movie power-scaling? Imo you should either accept both within reason or none at all.

I don't understand your point
 

SSJ2

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Well, your whole thread seemingly takes issue with people saying Toei haxes various characters in films. My point is that if you're willing to accept Toei nerfing characters like Kamiccolo, why is there an issue with them haxing others? I don't care one way or the other, but you are acknowledging inconsistencies in their power scaling either way.
 

Pakl

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Super Saiyan said:
Well, your whole thread seemingly takes issue with people saying Toei haxes various characters in films. My point is that if you're willing to accept Toei nerfing characters like Kamiccolo, why is there an issue with them haxing others? I don't care one way or the other, but you are acknowledging inconsistencies in their power scaling either way.

Have you read my post? I explained what hax is and gave examples. I just explained why there are some hax that are not hax.
 

Wogman

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It's 2020 and you are still going on with this M8 isn't Cell games nonsense -.-

Your head canon is merely that, head canon lol

Some bullshit interpretation you created. I'll give you facts

Broly called the strongest in 3 interviews, now go to sleep
 

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