ToP Anime

[SIAD]

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[SIAD]

I practically have Jiren (Episode 122) > Jiren (Peak Episode 110) ~ UI Sign Goku (Kamehameha vs Kefla) > Vegeta SSJB Beyond Limits (Final Flash) > Kefla SSJ2 (Peak) >>>>> Jiren (Vs UI Sign Goku 1st Use) = UI Sign Goku (1st Use).

At the end of the UI Sign Goku vs Jiren match, Jiren very calmly parried UI Sign Goku's punch, which was going full speed. Jiren had no way of knowing that Goku would lose his UI Sign state at that moment.

Vegeta stated in Chapter 122, when he faced Jiren, that he had never felt such a powerful Ki. That means it was the first time I felt that power.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Except that Jiren never powered up. He’s actually putting even less effort than before vs Vegeta in episode 122, so there’s no reason Vegeta would be feeling an even higher power just now.

 

[SIAD]

Except that Jiren never powered up. He’s actually putting even less effort than before vs Vegeta in episode 122, so there’s no reason Vegeta would be feeling an even higher power just now.

I think Jiren did an insignificant power up off screen. I went from being equal to UI Sign Goku (Kamehameha vs Kefla) to being somewhat superior.

I think Jiren in Chapter 122 was just putting out tremendous power, but he was technically messing with Goku and with Vegeta.

 

[Goku9001]

Except that Jiren never powered up. He’s actually putting even less effort than before vs Vegeta in episode 122, so there’s no reason Vegeta would be feeling an even higher power just now.

Frieza never did a power-up to 50% either. We know that was the case since it is stated and can be inferred based on how Frieza dominates Goku. We can infer Jiren powered up because Vegeta blatantly states that Jiren's power is the highest power he ever sensed despite sensing powers that exceeded Jiren (110).

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I'm thinking the multiplier of Freeza's golden form might be much, much smaller in the ToP. There's no way getting around 4th form Freeza > Hit without either buffing Freeza or nerfing Hit to SSJG level.

Golden Freeza ~ SSJB Goku > Dyspo (Speed) > Freeza > Hit is what we get. Goku has slacked off while Hit hasn't, yet Hit is the weaker one?

@Animelover5487 @Goku9001 @SIAD

 

[SIAD]

I'm thinking the multiplier of Freeza's golden form might be much, much smaller in the ToP. There's no way getting around 4th form Freeza > Hit without either buffing Freeza or nerfing Hit to SSJG level.

Golden Freeza ~ SSJB Goku > Dyspo (Speed) > Freeza > Hit is what we get. Goku has slacked off while Hit hasn't, yet Hit is the weaker one?

@Animelover5487 @Goku9001 @SIAD

Perhaps the gap between Golden Frieza over Fourth Form Frieza lessened as ToP progressed.

And the gap of both states returns to normal in DBS Broly.

 

[Goku9001]

I'm thinking the multiplier of Freeza's golden form might be much, much smaller in the ToP. There's no way getting around 4th form Freeza > Hit without either buffing Freeza or nerfing Hit to SSJG level.

Golden Freeza ~ SSJB Goku > Dyspo (Speed) > Freeza > Hit is what we get. Goku has slacked off while Hit hasn't, yet Hit is the weaker one?

@Animelover5487 @Goku9001 @SIAD

How I see it:

Golden Frieza (Finale) ~ SSJB Goku (Finale) >> SSJB Goku (vs. Jiren) > SSJB Goku (vs. Kale/Dyspo) ~ Hit > Dyspo (Speed) > Final Form Frieza. The way I see it is that Dyspo hard-counters Hit's abilities hence why Hit is struggling against Dyspo.

I think there is an argument for Goku being physically stronger and faster than Hit since even during their filler rematch, it's made apparent that Hit depends on his time skipping abilities to keep up with Goku. Goku even manages to graze him despite using his newest techniques. Hit definitely does seem to be on Toppo's level and Dyspo isn't quite there seeing how he performs against Final Form Frieza.

Frieza seems quite strong in DBS Broly so maybe the multiplier did change?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

@Goku9001 why do you think Freeza got stronger in the tournament? He doesn’t have any feats despite repeatedly being trounced by Toppo and Jiren.

I think I can see Hit’s Ki being more directed towards his techniques that raw power and speed. Even Base Goku bruised his cheek back in the first tournament. Hit vs Dyspo seems to suggest Hit is lagging behind by a lot though…

 

[SIAD]

The truth is that I don't see Golden Frieza (ToP) nor Hit (Pre Jiren) rivaling Toppo, as the former seemed to be on the level of Ultimate Gohan when they fought Dyspo.

I like the idea of having Goku SSJB (Fill) > Hit (Fill) and Hit's techniques being the reason the match ended in a draw.

The question of the Century is, who was stronger between Vegeta (Fill) and Hit (Fill)? And what difference in power are we talking about between the 3 in that Fill?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I don’t think anyone bar Kaio-Ken Goku rivaled Toppo initially. Vegeta either improved in their fight or Toppo was holding back against him.

I’m starting to think Hit was never SSJB level without timeskip and adaptation. I’ll rewatch his fights with Goku.

 

[SIAD]

I don’t think anyone bar Kaio-Ken Goku rivaled Toppo initially. Vegeta either improved in their fight or Toppo was holding back against him.

I’m starting to think Hit was never SSJB level without timeskip and adaptation. I’ll rewatch his fights with Goku.

I agree with everything, except for the Vegeta thing. Most likely Vegeta and Goku were rivaling each other around the time of the Exhibition Tournament and then Vegeta trains at the Rosat. It is not very strange that it doubles its power.

Episode 106 caught my attention, since Vegeta every so often gave orders on what to do to Goku. At the end of that episode, Vegeta mentions very confident that he will kill everyone.