TOP Ultimate Gohan vs RoF Golden Freeza

[Natasha Romanoff]

That's literally your personal feelings without addressing anything. Since that's personally how you feel, I'm not sure how to respond to that honestly.

No, they already portrayed how Goku felt in need to use Kaioken by his own will and a context pretty well constructed on his match with Hit.

Ssj Blue Goku vs Ultimate Gohan was intended to be a motivation by the scriptors alone, but considering that you believe so purely that your headcanon is the reality and what the authors are actually intending, then I have nothing to say.

 

[Goku9001]

No, they already portrayed how Goku felt in need to use Kaioken by his own will and a context pretty well constructed on his match with Hit.

Ssj Blue Goku vs Ultimate Gohan was intended to be a motivation by the scriptors alone, but considering that you believe so purely that your headcanon is the reality and what the authors are actually intending, then I have nothing to say.

I'm just going with what we are explicitly told and shown.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

I'm just going with what we are explicitly told and shown.

Judging things by perspective and ignoring information that can oppose to your way of thinking. I'm fine with that.

 

[Goku9001]

Judging things by perspective and ignoring information that can oppose to your way of thinking. I'm fine with that.

It's about not inserting my own personal feelings and questioning everything presented to us.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

It's about not inserting my own personal feelings and questioning everything presented to us.

Personal feelings? Do you really think I care about this stuff? If you don't give an straight answer to this, yer just making another claim without basis which is basically how you portray yourself most of the times. Questioning wouldn't be adequate more like analyzing things properly and not fall into things that may wank or could prove wrong whatever we are claiming. But, either way, I can't decide by you, you do, if you still wants to be into the wrong path, be happy with it.

 

[Goku9001]

Personal feelings? Do you really think I care about this stuff? If you don't give an straight answer to this, yer just making another claim without basis which is basically how you portray yourself most of the times. Questioning wouldn't be adequate more like analyzing things properly and not fall into things that may wank or could prove wrong whatever we are claiming. But, either way, I can't decide by you, you do, if you still wants to be into the wrong path, be happy with it.

It's semantics. When I say personal feelings, I mean that you are injecting your own personal thoughts into what the narrative is showing. You claim that Gohan's fight with Blue Goku is "too short" to evaluate. That's a personal feeling that you have about the narrative and there are countless times in both Z and Super where a "short" battle is enough to discern a power gap between the fighters.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

It's semantics. When I say personal feelings, I mean that you are injecting your own personal thoughts into what the narrative is showing. You claim that Gohan's fight with Blue Goku is "too short" to evaluate. That's a personal feeling that you have about the narrative and there are countless times in both Z and Super where a "short" battle is enough to discern a power gap between the fighters.

Like when? Just because of a trade of blows it relies on how a character compares with another? Ssj Blue Goku traded blows with Jiren on 122, yet he was still under him on terms of power. Saying that Goku was overpowered or outmatched is just your conclussion of the fight based on a superficial and inconclusive analysis.

 

[Goku9001]

Like when? Just because of a trade of blows it relies on how a character compares with another? Ssj Blue Goku traded blows with Jiren on 122, yet he was still under him on terms of power. Saying that Goku was overpowered or outmatched is just your conclussion of the fight based on a superficial and inconclusive analysis.

I'm saying that power dynamics can be inferred in short clashes as the one that we are referring to so regardless of your personal beliefs, the writers don't think the same way. Examples of these would include SSJ Goku vs. Toppo, SSJ Goku vs. Frost, or SSJG Vegeta vs. Ikari Broly where the power dynamic could absolutely be seen in just a single clash. I wouldn't even say your example is a good one because outside of Blue Goku pushing him back once, Jiren subsequently retaliates and Blue Goku is immediately overwhelmed.

As discussed before, Goku ramps things up at Gohan's request and is immediately forced into Kaioken Blue once regular Blue does not work. The message is clear. Even if you were to argue that this isn't enough to conclude that Gohan was on par with Blue Goku, it absolutely is enough to conclude that Gohan wasn't drastically below Blue Goku. Else, he would have immediately been one-shotted or pushed around as we've seen countless times in various battles.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

@Goku9001 I agree the scriptors doesn't think the same way you're portraying to, on their mind, Ssj Blue Goku vs Ultimate Gohan was just a motivation on Goku's part, Gohan's true performance is only shown when he got oneshotted by Kaioken Goku. In Z, 18 had a short exchange with Ssj Goten and Trunks, and yeah, this is Toei for you, I highly doubt that Toei's intention was to portray her on being Ssj Kids level, Perfect Cell was trading blows with Ssj2 Kid Gohan, I highly doubt that the intention is to portray Cell being on Gohan's level, especially when a powered up Cell got wrecked by said Gohan.

Yes, Toppo was holding back heavily on effort against Ssj Goku as he can compete with Ssj Blue Goku and wreck characters such as Ultimate Gohan, Ikari Broly tanked SsjG Vegeta, so the outcome goes without saying.

Ssj Blue Goku and Jiren were having a short exchange of blows similar to Gohan vs Ssj Blue Goku, yet, later on, he was dominating both Goku and Vegeta.

Now, could Goku have showed Kaioken against Gohan, had Gohan not seen it before? We'll never have a answer, but at least, for what the facts portrays it to be, Ssj Blue Goku could have oneshotted Ultimate Gohan the way Kaioken Goku could.