Toriyama STILL doesn't remember his own manga?

[kriss-]

That's silly. He wrote the entire story and re-read it. He would know things such as:

a) Was Vegeta referencing Kid Boo's Chi in his analysis of him?
b) Was Gotenks sensed from the World Of The Kais?
c) Did Kid Boo get weaker from two Boo's or simply one?

Arguments can be made for both sides pertaining to the arguments above, but because the Japanese language can be weird, it is difficult to translate in specific areas. But someone who wrote the fuckin' story, and re-read it, would clearly know more about it then you, Herms, Kaboom or the entire Dragonball community combined,

Its silly to argue otherwise, unless you hold some personal grudge against the man.

 

[SSJ2]

Considering his mishaps in the past, that alone proves that being the creator does not make you infallible. I have no vendetta against Toriyama's, but it's clear to me that he doesn't remember the original product as well as you seem to think.

 

[Uchiha]

I'm not saying Herms and other fans are infallible either. I'm just pointing out that he can also be infallible, the same as his fans. You're making him out to be an infallible source in which no one can have a better memory than him.

 

[kriss-]

Being the creator does make you infallible. You can change anything as you see fit, you are basically god within your own universe. Arguing that he would come and say absurd, stupid things is an irrelevant point because it would never happen.

 

[SSJ2]

That point is not true. Uchiha already countered this, but if AT was to say that Vegeta was the one who killed Boo, that would be factually incorrect.

And he has in fact said stupid irrelevant things, especially in recent times. Bibidi is Babidi? Boo was not their creation but has been around forever? All contradictory to the original source.

 

[kriss-]

What happens to your moot point if Toriyama took the Manga and retconned it out -revised it and included statements to fit in line with Dragonball Super; exactly as DC and Marvel have done on several occasions.

You have no authority to claim that he is limited with how much control he has within his own Universe. He has complete control and is infallible.

Akira Toriyama: Only the original author can change what was previously established.

Contradictions tend to occur in a work of fantasy. Even J.R.R. Tolkien has contradictions in Lord Of The Rings.

It doesnt mean, that YOU, the FAN, can say he isn't reliable.

 

[Uchiha]

No it doesn't. Saying it over and over won't make it true. I agree that it certainly gives him authority, but there's really no precedent to make him infallible. DB is not the Bible. He's been objectively wrong and fallible in his interviews.

 

[Tapion]

Toriyama is as fallible as Herms. Both make mistakes and are uncertain about things.

The difference is that Toriyama flat-out stated that he don't give a damn to what is stated in the manga. Just because he is author, this doesn't mean that we can't question what he says and disagree with his word.

 

[SSJ2]

If he retconned the manga, that would be different. You have been arguing that nothing has been retconned.

Anyway, the original point of this thread still stands. The line in Super directly states that SSJ requires a lot of stamina which is factually incorrect.

 

[kriss-]

I countered the OP in my earlier post.

 

[SSJ2]

I saw your counter. It didn't make sense because the manga references the entire Super Saiyan form as being the most effective, not just the Super Saiyan form at that moment. The mastery of the form doesn't just disappear if you become more powerful.

 

[kriss-]

Toriyama already stated that Goku won't become a Super Saiyan 2 or 3 anymore because they are forced increases of Super Saiyan, and that Super Saiyan 1 on it's own is the most effective way of further powering up. This means that Goku is bypassing his previous limitations and has to learn to control a new degree of power.

Goku mastered where he was at, not where he presently is.

It makes complete sense.

 

[SSJ2]

His interview sounds retarded to me. He is literally suggesting that Goku has to do what he already did before, which would be pointless. If Goku is going to "unmaster" SSJ every time he becomes more powerful, then there is no point in mastering it in the first place.

 

[kriss-]

His interview implies that Goku focused more on forcibly amplifying his Chi as opposed to mastering what he already had. It is a creative way to disregard Super Saiyan 2 and 3 entirely.

 

[Big Ank]

Toriyama can retcon/change all he wants, but it doesn't change the fact that the original manga wasn't that way.