Trunks SSJ2

Spiral-Force

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ahill1 said:
It's true that they could increase the SSJ through increasing their overall power, but Trunks didn't think there was something lying beyond it or that the state itself could be improved, so I think his training revolved around increasing his overall power by increasing his base power. If he thought the SSJ could be perfected like he did in the Black saga, then something could have come out of it.
Whilst Trunks thought that the usual SSJ2 wasn't his limit, he didn't have any knowledge or examples to go off of to confirm that such was an actuality beforehand. It didn't come across Trunks' mind to surpass Super Saiyan in the sense of a transformation, but I don't recall it ever being said that he didn't think the state itself can be improved. And when taking into account that Trunks could only hope to defeat #17 & #18 with nothing less than SSJ before going to the past, bettering SSJ would logically occupy his mind moreso than his base level. The training we see him doing with Gohan attests to that.

F2CrGym.png
 

Captain Cadaver

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Spiral-Force said:
It'd be virtually pointless for Vegeta's comment to be included in the narrative if it was wrong and not corrected by a subsequent statement.
Whilst it can help to have all statements mechanically work for the narrative, that doesn't always have to be the case. Vegeta was often shown to be cautious and leaving nothing to chance so long as his ego wasn't challenged, the majority of the events on Namek being the major example. It would be in character for him to make such a decision and declaration even if incorrect.

If you can't actually backup what you asserted, then I'm not interested in your claim.
Good Boo is the same as Fat Boo only in appearance, his existence being the result of Fat Boo splitting off the his good and evil sides. There's literally nothing with which he'd be able to make another Pure Evil Boo with, unless taking into account hypotheticals such as the possibility of him being corrupted as the Nameless Namek was, which is just that.

How would he have known of the flaw within Other World where the problem never presented itself?
He ought to be aware that SS3 had some sort of drain on Ki, albeit nowhere near as much as alive, given using it actively drained the time he could spend on Earth and wished to only use it as a last resort because of it.

Still don't see how any of this prohibits Goku from unlocking Enhanced SSJ2, which was the main point.
Without knowledge on how debilitating SS3 truly was or a real need to fix the flaw, there was no reason to focus on mastering SS3 in Otherworld.
As for on Earth, it's highly doubtful Earth training would provide what he'd need to master/enhance SS2, considering he needed the Rosat to master it and would have nowhere near the same factors in Earth training such as in the Rosat such as its gravity or the thin layer of air. Visiting Kaio's also seemed to be something Chichi didn't allow him to do until Satan's money made farm work unnecessary.
 

ahill1

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Spiral-Force said:
ahill1 said:
It's true that they could increase the SSJ through increasing their overall power, but Trunks didn't think there was something lying beyond it or that the state itself could be improved, so I think his training revolved around increasing his overall power by increasing his base power. If he thought the SSJ could be perfected like he did in the Black saga, then something could have come out of it.
Whilst Trunks thought that the usual SSJ2 wasn't his limit, he didn't have any knowledge or examples to go off of to confirm that such was an actuality beforehand. It didn't come across Trunks' mind to surpass Super Saiyan in the sense of a transformation, but I don't recall it ever being said that he didn't think the state itself can be improved. And when taking into account that Trunks could only hope to defeat #17 & #18 with nothing less than SSJ before going to the past, bettering SSJ would logically occupy his mind moreso than his base level. The training we see him doing with Gohan attests to that.

F2CrGym.png
Couldn't it be said Trunks was in his SSJ state so he could keep up with Gohan?
 

Spiral-Force

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Captain Cadaver said:
Whilst it can help to have all statements mechanically work for the narrative, that doesn't always have to be the case. Vegeta was often shown to be cautious and leaving nothing to chance so long as his ego wasn't challenged, the majority of the events on Namek being the major example. It would be in character for him to make such a decision and declaration even if incorrect.
But in those events that you speak of, there isn't an occurence of his "caution" causing him to say things that make no sense with no rectification. Of course, there are multiple moments when Vegeta is wrong, but they're typically a result of his pride or rage clouding his judgement, not the avoidance of danger. His cautiousness does not prove that he's incorrect in this context.

Captain Cadaver said:
Good Boo is the same as Fat Boo only in appearance, his existence being the result of Fat Boo splitting off the his good and evil sides. There's literally nothing with which he'd be able to make another Pure Evil Boo with, unless taking into account hypotheticals such as the possibility of him being corrupted as the Nameless Namek was, which is just that.
Judging from how the story describes Evil Buu's formulation, Buu's anger itself became a physical manifestation. Despite Mr. Buu's label of "good", the story shows that he's still susceptible to getting angry, even over trivial matters like the pudding incident during the Battle of Gods Saga. If he gets angry enough, then an embodiment of his vexation could be released.

UGlBZDP.png


To treat this as an impossibility is subjective and incompatible with what the story expresses through Vegeta's words. Even outside of the Buu matter, Goku is someone that attracts bad guys regardless, and there's no telling when another powerful enemy may make an appearance, so it'd still be practical for him to minimise his weakness to become more efficient in battle.

Captain Cadaver said:
He ought to be aware that SS3 had some sort of drain on Ki, albeit nowhere near as much as alive, given using it actively drained the time he could spend on Earth and wished to only use it as a last resort because of it.
His time was decreasing because of the power output, as pointed out by King Kai.

Edmuk9I.png


It is not suggested that he knew of the problem during his Other World training; it's an issue that came to light through battling Buu.

Captain Cadaver said:
Without knowledge on how debilitating SS3 truly was or a real need to fix the flaw, there was no reason to focus on mastering SS3 in Otherworld.
This doesn't explain why Enhanced SSJ2 did not occur instead.

Captain Cadaver said:
As for on Earth, it's highly doubtful Earth training would provide what he'd need to master/enhance SS2, considering he needed the Rosat to master it and would have nowhere near the same factors in Earth training such as in the Rosat such as its gravity or the thin layer of air. Visiting Kaio's also seemed to be something Chichi didn't allow him to do until Satan's money made farm work unnecessary.
What are you on about? Are you forgetting that Trunks managed to master it amongst the scarcity of his Earth in the alternate timeline? Even in just the confines of Earth, Goku has much better training opportunities than Trunks did.

ahill1 said:
Couldn't it be said Trunks was in his SSJ state so he could keep up with Gohan?
Perhaps, however this does not mean he didn't also see a benefit in fighting in SSJ over base in terms of his own progression, nevertheless.
 

Spiral-Force

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If that were the case, the storyline did a fantastic job of providing zero indication of that.
 
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