Underrated Gaps

p123

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I think the introduction of Cell really introduces some large power gaps that are underplayed generally...

1) Imperfect Cell (Initially) >> Super Saiyan Vegeta

Sure, Cell is impressed with Vegeta's power, hell, it's possible Vegeta wasn't even a freaking Super Saiyan in Cell's timeline. Sure, Vegeta being say 75% of his power would be impressive in that scenario. But all in all, Vegeta is a nothing to Cell. Vegeta even describes Kamiccolo and Cell as absurdly large kis. Vegeta is surpassed by a large margin. 18 states Vegeta was powerless against her and 18 even tanks one of his punches, walks away generally unharmed from a mini-BBA. Cell is not rivaling the Androids together like Piccolo is, but I bet Cell can put up a fight against 18 just fine. (Kamiccolo > Vegeta ) > (Vegeta > Piccolo) by a solid margin...


2) Imperfect Cell >> Light Grenade >> Kamiccolo

This is perhaps, the most underrated gap in all of the series. It is constantly downplayed. And it's about time we put this to an end. Cell takes no damage from the attack and hell, he has ZERO respect towards the incoming blast. One of the cockiest attitudes towards an amplified blast that we've ever seen. When you want to compare this blast to anything, you have to think of Goku's Kamehameha vs Old Piccolo Daimao. Piccolo's Ki attack against Raditz when they first meet and that's about it. Just put it this way. (Cell > Light Grenade) > (SSJ Goku > Death Beam). There's a huge disparity in the powers here. It's like pulling teeth to make this a 2x gap, but realistically it should be a 3x gap at minimum for Cell and Piccolo here.

3) Semi Cell >>> Super Saiyans

This gap gets downplayed a lot because of #1 and #2 being downplayed so much. Semi Cell is a fucking monster. Kamiccolo considers him an unnatural, unreachable power. Just think about that. For starters, Semi Cell should be 2x Android 16 who should be 3x Kamiccolo who should be 1.5x Vegeta. Those are good solid, fair numbers. Hardly every seen. People talk about bloating, yet no one bats an eye when Captain Ginyu's already enormous initial power is doubled in a blink of an eye. And then Goku is 1.5x stronger than that, and then can get 5x stronger than that. It's madness.

4) Base Saiyans >> Freeza

Forgetting about Super for a second, when we talk about how quickly the Base Saiyans get stronger than Freeza, we are talking much quicker than you'd expect. If you follow steps 1-3 here, you are going to catch them up rather quickly. But it also depends on if you took the other parts of the saga serious. Trunks >> Cyborg Freeza ~ Goku Namek and Sick Goku > Yardrat Goku make the Saiyans catch up to Freeza very quickly. I have Base Trunks/Vegeta around 80% Freeza after their 1st Rosat Trip.

5) Base Saiyans >> Androids

Everyone likes to forget about Base Trunks showing vs Imperfect Cell back in the future timeline. Now most don't think Trunks would win in base, but his power is absolutely astonishing. It doesn't appear that Super Saiyan Trunks (Initially or Androids Saga) would ever be able to do this in my opinion. He's way above the Future Androids at this level. Whether he powered up from 3 years ago is anyone's guess, but I don't think it's necessary. Even if Trunks had a solid advantage over the Future Androids, he wouldn't take any chances. And this is a weak Trunks in comparison to what we see in the Buu Saga. Vegeta on the plane ride confidently proclaims he will win the tournament in Base with 18 sitting right next to him. Hell, the kids have zero respect for 18's power at all. They just have to make a statement of, oh yea, she was strong enough to beat our Dad's so we have to be on our toes a little bit. They end up holding their own, while in the worst fighting circumstances ever. I think the range for the Base Saiyans is filling the gargantuan 3x gap that is between 18/17 and 16.

6) Going backwards here. The Raditz gaps don't get talked about enough. This is the only time Goku ever gets one shotted and Piccolo's ki blast gets completely tanked. They take off their weights and only think they are going to have a slim chance, even though they powered up greatly, only to find out, they have no chance in hell when Raditz powers up. Raditz levels get no attention because of the many scouter levels and people think there's nothing there. They're wrong.

7) Goku >= Gohan >= Tao Pai Pai (Serious) > Tao Pai Pai (Initial) > Devil Man >> Mummy > Master Roshi

People underplay just how superior Tao Pai Pai is. They underplay the one shot abilities of Goku on the Mummy and Devil Man. Just think about think, a guy Jackie Chun/Goku 21st Budokai probably have NO chance against, gets one shotted by Goku. Devil Man is impressed, but thinks he's still stronger. Then Goku goes on to one shot him as well. And even then, the level that one shotted Devil Man, had a decent battle against Tao Pai Pai's full power. Tao Pai Pai is a fucking monster.
 

Victorious

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I would put SSJ Vegeta higher than 75% of initial IPC. More like 83-85%. Though I never bought he was some distant rival. He would be able to engage Cell and certainly if Cell were to fight him he would not just fodderize him instantly and absorb him. He would give Cell some slight trouble and he'd get caught by Kamiccolo during the process.

Weighted Kamiccolo would utterly wreck SSJ Vegeta. Weighted Kamiccolo has got to be at least as strong as #18 is.

(Kamiccolo > Vegeta ) > (Vegeta > Piccolo) by a solid margin..

Yes I think we can all agree on this. If we are talking unweighted FP Kamiccolo's level when he fought #17.

This is the Vegeta vs Recoome and Recoome vs Goku scenerio all over again.
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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Super Boo >> Pure Boo/Gohan >> SSJ3 Goku is uberly underrated as well.

P, Cell thinks he should hide and then hurry up when he sees Vegeta, while Piccolo thought Initial Cell was trash. Cell definitely is closer to Vegeta than to Piccolo.
 

SSJ2

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Pure Boo >> SSJ3 Goku? :nickyoung
 

SSJ2

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You think Pure Boo is on Gohan's level? Fuck off
 

withheldforprivacy

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p123 said:
I think the introduction of Cell really introduces some large power gaps that are underplayed generally...

1) Imperfect Cell (Initially) >> Super Saiyan Vegeta

2) Imperfect Cell >> Light Grenade >> Kamiccolo



7) Goku >= Gohan >= Tao Pai Pai (Serious) > Tao Pai Pai (Initial) > Devil Man >> Mummy > Master Roshi

And even then, the level that one shotted Devil Man, had a decent battle against Tao Pai Pai's full power.

1. It is implied that Ginger Cell is stronger than SSJs, but i see no reason to place him greatly above them.

2. Cell was pushed back by Light Grenade and, in Herms, it was stated that he took some slight damage. I
have Light Grenade/Humans Cell gap slightly above Recoome/Vegeta's Pseudo Final Flash.

7. Actually, i don't think Goku used all his power when he one shotted Devil, considering he says 'maybe i
overdid it a little'. This implies he used a little more power than he should have, but still not his max.
 

p123

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1) Cell only hides from Vegeta because Vegeta would be able to slow him down and allow Piccolo to catch him. Vegeta is now a respectable level to Cell, which is shocked, but Vegeta's opinion holds more weight here, Cell is an absurdly large power, he's well beyond Vegeta.

2) English Dubbed says Cell took no damage. Who to believe? I'll go with the best translated, official source here. It should be more than slightly, Reecome is bloodied, his entire battle jacket destroyed, his hair is gone, clothes in tatters, and he's smoking. Cell looks otherwise unbothered. The blast did move him though, that's for sure, we just don't know how to picture how it all went down. It's a strange scenario ain't it?

3) He overdid it a little means he didn't have to hit the poor lad so hard. Doesn't really say anything about how much more he could access, nothing suggests he had anymore in the tank from what I saw.

4) Vic I meant Unweighted Kamiccolo has a bigger lead on Vegeta than Vegeta had on Piccolo. The weights is irrelevant really at this stage.

5) @GS Gohan > Gotenks >>> Goku gap indeed is underrated. But some rate it too much as well. I think 10x is the best scenario. No need for it to get ridiculously more powerful than that.


That Kid Buu > Gohan talk should be ban worthy on this forum I'd think.
 

Victorious

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Japanese anime says Cell took no damage as well. Herms' "hardly any" is his own translation.
 

p123

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Well that's what I was quoting. The English Subbed is the Japanese version. Anyone knows why Herms has it different?
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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@P, If Vegeta is so far below Cell as you say, Cell could've taken his down with one swift blow. Instead, he hides and says he oughta hurry.

10x is fine om Gohan/Goku if you can fit all of Gotenks's forms in it.
 

p123

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No, that's not what I'm saying. Vegeta is like 75-80% of Cell. He would still have been a hassle to deal with. Cell is not strong enough to one shot Vegeta, but he can sure whoop his ass. Just not quickly enough to screw himself into getting gang fucked by the rest of the crew, don't forget Piccolo is hot on his tail!

Using the proper Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 multipliers alleviates this issue. I have them both as a 2.5x boost and it has worked out marvelously. Transformations need only to be as strong as the story dictates, the multiplier doesn't dictate the story.
 

Victorious

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Piccolo vs.Gero is a bit under rated 85-88% is too.high. Its more.like 78-83%
 

p123

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I got it at 84%. I always liked it at a 83.3333% kind of gap. Clearly ahead of your standard distant rival, but not completely shit fucking him. 84% is good for me. They make it tight because they think 20>19 which makes gaps really hard.
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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p123 said:
No, that's not what I'm saying. Vegeta is like 75-80% of Cell. He would still have been a hassle to deal with. Cell is not strong enough to one shot Vegeta, but he can sure whoop his ass. Just not quickly enough to screw himself into getting gang fucked by the rest of the crew, don't forget Piccolo is hot on his tail!

Using the proper Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 multipliers alleviates this issue. I have them both as a 2.5x boost and it has worked out marvelously. Transformations need only to be as strong as the story dictates, the multiplier doesn't dictate the story.

Dodoria was 83-90% of Vegeta and got one shoted with a ton of effort.
 

p123

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Dodoria wasn't one shotted.

When people say one shotted, they mean literally one punch. A ki blast completely changes things.
 

Victorious

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Dodoria got one shotted by way of ki amplification. So did Cui but he was already KOed by one punch.
 

p123

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That's not what being one shotted means. Cell was killed by one shot then. That doesn't make sense.

Being one or two shotted means being KO'd by one or two physical attacks. Raditz one shots Goku. That's a legit one shot. Vegeta killing Dodoria with a max effort amplified blast, no, just no. Not the same thing.
 

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