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Why Oozaru Vegeta at 50k?
Vegeta attaining Super Saiyan never really made sense. Too many issues. Vegeta at the time of Freeza's arrival on Earth should at least be somewhere around Goku's power on Namek, if not higher. The power scale of Goku > Trunks > Freeza suggests there were quite some powering up over the last couple of years.
With the immediate death of Goku, I feel like the power scale would have stayed the same as the Trunks Saga. Piccolo has caught up to Vegeta, but Vegeta probably still has the edge. Without the looming threat of the Androids and with Goku's death disheartening their desire to train, they only progress marginally compared to what the did in the present timeline. I don't think Piccolo surpasses Vegeta in the Future Timeline.
Power level wise this is needed as well. Gohan has very good ki sensing skills, if Vegeta was a Super Saiyan and got killed, he would have obviously remembered that level prior to facing off with the Androids. Vegeta being significantly higher than Goku Namek throws the already large gap between Yardrat Goku and Namek Goku even further. Which makes things messy.
Vegeta attaining Super Saiyan never really made sense. Too many issues. Vegeta at the time of Freeza's arrival on Earth should at least be somewhere around Goku's power on Namek, if not higher. The power scale of Goku > Trunks > Freeza suggests there were quite some powering up over the last couple of years.
With the immediate death of Goku, I feel like the power scale would have stayed the same as the Trunks Saga. Piccolo has caught up to Vegeta, but Vegeta probably still has the edge. Without the looming threat of the Androids and with Goku's death disheartening their desire to train, they only progress marginally compared to what the did in the present timeline. I don't think Piccolo surpasses Vegeta in the Future Timeline.
Power level wise this is needed as well. Gohan has very good ki sensing skills, if Vegeta was a Super Saiyan and got killed, he would have obviously remembered that level prior to facing off with the Androids. Vegeta being significantly higher than Goku Namek throws the already large gap between Yardrat Goku and Namek Goku even further. Which makes things messy.
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SSJ2 said:
Why not? Absolutely nothing contradicts it. Besides, Toyotaro still eventually sends his work so Toriyama can see it, and Toriyama has already done some 'corrections' regarding Toyotaro's own works, yet he still didn't tell Toyotaro to keep Vegeta as a SSJ in that arc. If it were something he disagreed with, shouldn't he have told Toyotato that?
If there's nothing in the original manga that contradicts it, then I really don't see the problem in going with an official take on with, and that official take is even more valid than the Daizenshuu itself considering Toriyama is still supervising it somehow, yet it was made pretty clear his involvement with the Dazenshuu was minimal to say the least.
The only thing someone could come up with to contradict Vegeta being depicted in base in that panel is arguing he was already battered enough he couldn't keep up the form, yet that is still iffy considering the stances we have seen of Vegeta dropping from SSJ stems from him losing consciousness.
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Ozaru at 50k stems from the fact that Goku stated that not even a Kaioken x5 should be enough to stop Vegeta, without specifying higher levels of the Kaioken... which surely would be the case if Vegeta were, let's say, on par with a Kaioken x10, right?
Now that I think about it, Goku had already been considerably damaged by then, so his Kaioken x5 should be considerably below even 40k (which would be a hypothetical 100% Kaioken x5 Goku)... so Vegeta could be realistically even lower than that, which also fits with his fight against enraged Gohan, whom I don't think should be above 2,800.
Now that I think about it, Goku had already been considerably damaged by then, so his Kaioken x5 should be considerably below even 40k (which would be a hypothetical 100% Kaioken x5 Goku)... so Vegeta could be realistically even lower than that, which also fits with his fight against enraged Gohan, whom I don't think should be above 2,800.
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Goku only stating that he'd be no match even with Kaioken x5, rather than making a far higher benchmark, which would imply the weakened Oozaru Vegeta was in between KKx5 and 6 Galu.p123 said:
That, and it reduces the necessary power of the Genki-Dama, which makes Vegeta's plot armouring against a version only described by Goku as less than half it's original power seem a lot more believable. That, and Gohan being able to hold his own against Vegeta after the latter lost his tail, rage boost or not.
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p123 said:
My Pseudo SSJ2 theory solves the ancient problem of Gohan's form against
Dabura.
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p123 said:
Gohan was Pseudo SSJ2 against Dabura.
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I don't know, the gaps seem pretty tight. I always got the impression that Trunks > Freeza was quite large, so large that even if Freeza had powered up, it wouldn't have made much of a difference.
However, it makes sense for the gaps to be tight considering the rate of improvement for the SSJs in the story. It feels like the Super Saiyans are stuck within a threshold that's similar but too far off from the Androids.
However, it makes sense for the gaps to be tight considering the rate of improvement for the SSJs in the story. It feels like the Super Saiyans are stuck within a threshold that's similar but too far off from the Androids.
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p123 said:
It's like someone who thinks Gohan was SSJ but doesn't wanna argue with people who think he was SSJ2.
