Vegeta & Kaio-Ken Goku Gap

Fantastische Hure

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Why is this so hard to figure-out? The numbers we are given seem too limited for Vegeta to be able to win so easily (maybe).

What if Vegeta was higher than 18,000? ^o) ^o) ^o)
 

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Vegeta was winning in the first round if memory serves correct.

Vegeta: 18,000
Kaioken Goku: 16,000
 

Fantastische Hure

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then vegeta powered-up, too

or he was jst getting srs & making his power felt

if it was the former then he is probably weaker than his full-power
 

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Fantastische Hure said:
Lord Saiyajin said:
I think Pyrus already clear that.
& wat tf did he say???

srsly y u jst saying that, instead of showing me??? :( :( :(
I just made a thread about Initial Vegeta's power level and Kyo posted where Kaboom explained it very well.

Let's try to keep things shonen and respectful, okay?

Anyway, if you ask me, the whole thing just boils down to the methods used being wildly different.

The type of power-up that we see Vegeta, Nappa, and a few others do, is not quite the same thing as suppressing your power and then revealing it. It's more equivalent to being in a relaxed state when you're not fighting, and then "flexing your muscles" when you do. Their actual power level doesn't change, just the amount of effort behind it. 

This is different from what the Earth-fighters can do, which is actually manipulating and changing their level of Ki at will. They also seem better at using their power, such as focusing it for high-powered attacks, which will read as a higher power level on a scouter.

Tried-and-true analogy time:
Regular resting power: Wearing a short sleeved t-shirt. Not really trying to hide your strength, but not showing it off, either. People can tell that you're pretty strong from seeing the muscles in your arms, but they only get a rough idea.

Powering up / "Surfacing" Ki: Ripping off your shirt and flexing. Even though you haven't gained any actual muscle, now everyone can see more of what you've got goin' on, and have a much better grasp on how strong you are.

"Suppressing" Ki / Manipulating power level: Wearing a loose-fitting long-sleeve shirt and stuffing a pillow in it. Now nobody can tell you've got any muscles at all.

Now when it comes to reading power, a scouter is much more precise and scientific. It will give you an exact reading for whoever you're scanning, regardless of whether they've "powered up" or not. But it can be easily fooled by people who can freely control their Ki output so as to suppress their true power.

On the flipside, sensing Ki naturally is advantageous in that it's more, shall we say, "intuitive." It operates like a sixth sense in battle, giving someone who's capable of it an edge in tactics and perception over someone who can't. A scouter may be able to tell you more accurately how strong someone is, but it sure as heck won't help you keep track of their movements when you're going blow-for-blow with them. 

The downside of Ki-sensing is what everyone's been talking about; since it relies largely on how other people's Ki "feels," it's not as precise as a scouter when it comes to actually measuring power. You may be able to feel that someone is very strong, to roughly compare them to yourself, and if you're especially skilled even be able to tell if they're hiding more power or not. But it can be hard or impossible to get an accurate impression of someone's full power if they're not actually pumped up and using it.
 

Fantastische Hure

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then y was goku shocked when he felt vegeta's power after he did wot he did???

was his power more sense-able & more clear than before???
 

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Perhaps they can't sense them well? Because Piccolo couldn't tell that Vegeta is stronger than Nappa until Vegeta yell at Nappa.
 

Southern Gothic

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Lord Saiyajin said:
Vegeta was winning in the first round if memory serves correct.

Vegeta: 18,000
Kaioken Goku: 16,000
I go by this as well. Never had a problem with it.
 

Fantastische Hure

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Southern Gothic said:
Lord Saiyajin said:
Vegeta was winning in the first round if memory serves correct.

Vegeta: 18,000
Kaioken Goku: 16,000
I go by this as well. Never had a problem with it.
Goku is over <del>9,000</del> 8,000 though. :et :et :et
 

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Goku- 8.100
Getes (initial)- 9.000
Goku (2x KK)- 16.200
Getes (more serious)- 15.000
Getes (max)- 18.000
Goku (post being headbutted)- 7.500
Goku (2x KK)- 15.000
 

Southern Gothic

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Fantastische Hure said:
Southern Gothic said:
Lord Saiyajin said:
Vegeta was winning in the first round if memory serves correct.

Vegeta: 18,000
Kaioken Goku: 16,000
I go by this as well. Never had a problem with it.
Goku is over <del>9,000</del> 8,000 though. :et :et :et
What's the "offical" numbers for these guys then? :et
 

Fantastische Hure

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withheldforprivacy said:
Goku- 8.100
Getes (initial)- 9.000
Goku (2x KK)- 16.200
Getes (more serious)- 15.000
Getes (max)- 18.000
Goku (post being headbutted)- 7.500
Goku (2x KK)- 15.000

I think Goku is too close to Vegeta.

wot u think???

Southern Gothic said:
Fantastische Hure said:
Southern Gothic said:
I go by this as well. Never had a problem with it.
Goku is over <del>9,000</del> 8,000 though. :et :et :et
What's the "offical" numbers for these guys then? :et

over 8,000 :et :et :et

could be anything like 8,005 or 8,010, but can't be that much higher if u think vegeta is 18,000 since vegeta could still easily defeat kaio-ken goku
 

Southern Gothic

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Oh, okay. You just mean he's in the 8,000 area, just not exactly 8,000. I have no problem with that, if Goku ends up at like 8,500 or so.

Even if it's close, Vegeta smashed Dodoria with about the same gap, and that was Dodoria's natural power.
 

Fantastische Hure

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Southern Gothic said:
Oh, okay. You just mean he's in the 8,000 area, just not exactly 8,000. I have no problem with that, if Goku ends up at like 8,500 or so.

Even if it's close, Vegeta smashed Dodoria with about the same gap, and that was Dodoria's natural power.
if u think vegeta's 18,000, then goku at 8,500 is too much i think since his kaio-ken'd be 17,000 which is rly close to vegeta.

but i guess u could argue that goku jst learned the kaio-ken & the strain (he can't keep it up forever) helps make the fight more 1-sided for vegeta
 

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Fantastische Hure said:
Southern Gothic said:
Oh, okay. You just mean he's in the 8,000 area, just not exactly 8,000. I have no problem with that, if Goku ends up at like 8,500 or so.

Even if it's close, Vegeta smashed Dodoria with about the same gap, and that was Dodoria's natural power.
if u think vegeta's 18,000, then goku at 8,500 is too much i think since his kaio-ken'd be 17,000 which is rly close to vegeta.

but i guess u could argue that goku jst learned the kaio-ken & the strain (he can't keep it up forever) helps make the fight more 1-sided for vegeta
A 1000 gap makes more of a difference at this point in the series. Weren't Zarbon and Dodoria (and Shisami :troll ) about 22,000? That's only a 2000 difference from Vegeta's 24,000, and they got squashed. Dodoria got straight blown up. So a 1000 gap for Goku just means he got punched a lot.
 

Fantastische Hure

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Southern Gothic said:
Fantastische Hure said:
Southern Gothic said:
Oh, okay. You just mean he's in the 8,000 area, just not exactly 8,000. I have no problem with that, if Goku ends up at like 8,500 or so.

Even if it's close, Vegeta smashed Dodoria with about the same gap, and that was Dodoria's natural power.
if u think vegeta's 18,000, then goku at 8,500 is too much i think since his kaio-ken'd be 17,000 which is rly close to vegeta.

but i guess u could argue that goku jst learned the kaio-ken & the strain (he can't keep it up forever) helps make the fight more 1-sided for vegeta
A 1000 gap makes more of a difference at this point in the series. Weren't Zarbon and Dodoria (and Shisami :troll ) about 22,000? That's only a 2000 difference from Vegeta's 24,000, and they got squashed. Dodoria got straight blown up. So a 1000 gap for Goku just means he got punched a lot.
i was going by percentages more, since the numbers get bigger anyways ;) ;) ;)
 

Ryuzaki

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I rather think that made-up rules for the gaps won't get you anywhere. For example, Vegeta utterly trashed Kiwi with same gap as Goku KKx3 VS Vegeta.
 

Fantastische Hure

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Ryuzaki said:
I rather think that made-up rules for the gaps won't get you anywhere. For example, Vegeta utterly trashed Kiwi with same gap as Goku KKx3 VS Vegeta.
And Goku didn't do the same???

Goku had insane amount of strain too because of the Kaio-Ken x3, he wasn't even prepared to use it when he came to earth. Works well enough, in my opinion.

Even-though they probably are inconsistent.
 

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