Vegeta & Kaio-Ken Goku Gap

[Southern Gothic]

he started it

Doesn't matter. You guys can keep going, just argue about the subject. Then we all win.

Don't make us do a group hug.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Vegeta: 18,000

Goku Kaio-Kenx2: 16,000

All Goku did was barely dodge one of Vegeta's attacks. Then he uses Kaio-Kenx3.

Nothing contradicts the Daizenshuu listing AS USUAL Krillin

Vegeta went easy there

& the situation was hopeless for goku according to the narrator

 

[kriss-]

It's over a 10% gap, it is hopeless.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

It's over a 10% gap, it is hopeless.

i knw

but u tried to start an argument for some reason i forgot

even-tho i still think the numbers are a bit too limited

 

[withheldforprivacy]

My analysis of the battle:

PHASE 1
Goku uses his full normal power. Vegeta is just fooling around and has a moderate advantage...
Goku- 8.100
Vegeta (initial)- 9.000

PHASE 2
Goku goes KK, ambushing Getes for a while. Vegeta gets more serious and counter attacks, kicking Goku's
chin. The narrator says Goku has no advantage, but that doesn't mean Vegeta has. They're about even...
Goku (KK/1st attempt)- 16.200
Vegeta (serious)- 15.000

PHASE 3
Vegeta goes max and immediately headbutts Goku, drawing out blood. Goku uses KK again. After that
exchange, he breaths heavily, a sign he has lost at least a minimal amount of power...
Vegeta (max)- 18.000
Goku (post headbutt)- 7.500
Goku (KK/2nd attempt)- 15.000

 

[Fantastische Hure]

i don't think he lost power after the attack

also the narrator said it was hopeless situation :elmo :elmo :elmo

 

[withheldforprivacy]

1. i don't think he lost power after the attack

2. also the narrator said it was hopeless situation :elmo :elmo :elmo

1. Ok. I'm not against Vegeta being at 19k-20k. It'd been a long time since Dodoria had last seen him. 20k
places him far enough from 16k and 24k.


2. He didn't say it was hopeless. In Viz, he just said the 2x KK wasn't enough to stop the Saiyan.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

i heard it was a hopeless sit., tho

maybe it was a mistake

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

2. He didn't say it was hopeless. In Viz, he just said the 2x KK wasn't enough to stop the Saiyan.

Are you referring to me?

 

[withheldforprivacy]

2. He didn't say it was hopeless. In Viz, he just said the 2x KK wasn't enough to stop the Saiyan.

Are you referring to me?

Is that you, Vegeta?

 

[p123]

Goku~ 8,000
~Kaioken 12,000
~ KKx2 16,000
~ KKx3 24,000

Vegeta ( Initial ) 13,500
~ Full Power 18,000

 

[Pyro]

Dammit, P, don't tell me you're in that 1.5x camp.

 

[p123]

I've always been. It's a classic Toriyama mistake, but this is the best option. Your other two options are pitiful.

 

[Pyro]

Eh, sure, if you want to go that way. Good luck with it.

 

[p123]

What you think Vegeta doing a tremendous 1.15x power up is the better option?

 

[withheldforprivacy]

I've also played with 1.5x kaioken theory, i think it's really possible.

 

[Clearin]

Even before Vegeta powered up to max, he was still better than Kaio-Ken x2 Goku, not because of power, but because his speed and skill were greater.

Goku: “It figures...He’s still just joking around, yet he’s still surpassing me in speed and technique.â€￾

Goku specifcially doesn't mention power there.

And then after Vegeta powers up:

Goku: “Shit…!! His power and speed… [ ] I can’t keep up, even with the Kaio-Ken x2. [ ] I don’t care if my body breaks or I die! I’ve gotta up the Kaio-Ken to x3!!â€￾

If Vegeta can win with a lower PL than Goku, he sure as heck is gonna have an easier time with a higher one.

Obviously it won't be too much lower, since there's only so much speed and skill can make a difference in before they can't even hurt you. If Goku's 16,000 (technically a little over) maybe Vegeta was 15,000-15,500.

Vegeta being 18,000 works fine.

 

[Pyro]

What you think Vegeta doing a tremendous 1.15x power up is the better option?

Better than creating a new version of Kaioken, yes. But you do what you do.

 

[POOHEAD189]

8100 dropping to 7500 isn't significant, but it's enough to bring 2x KK Goku far from FP Vegeta.

It's fairly significant imo. Especially since it's shown a lot in the series how little power one needs in order to gain a fair advantage.