Was Cell a good and complex villain?

[ahill1]

Or do you find him kinda overrated as a villain?

 

[Papasmurf]

He was overrated imo. Hefelt more like a mishmash of characters than his own person, and the only parts that could have been well explored to give him his own brand of evil ("They should feel honored to be part of my power!") were touched upon only in one off panels. As Perfect Cell he was only a typical arrogant villain that loves to flaunt his superiority and watch others suffer, plus once surpassed he just did the same thing Freeza did anyway.

Fat Boo had more complexity, though it was soon soured when his evil part took over and eventually became a one-note nothing character that loves to destroy, not unlike Broly (Kid Boo).

Freeza was more interesting as a villain (before Super kept bringing him back) due to his snide pseudo-politeness and his throne of superiority never being shaken until Goku went SSJ.

Cell could have been much more interesting had his dynamics with Future Trunks been better handled, seeing as he's basically the result of karma coming back to bite Trunks in the ass for time travel.

 

[ahill1]

Agreed with Boo being more complex and having more layers. Tho it could be argued Cell showed different traits as he was developing himself I think. At first he seemed cautious and calculator, since he knew he was still weak and took a more cautious approach like Piccolo... As Semi Cell he still maintained a cautious or better wording, an obsession for perfection, with 16 wondering why is he so obsessed with perfection when he's already the strongest... And as a perfect being, it makes sense to challenge himself to prove the power of perfection... And get the notion of perfection shattered once someone surpassed him... I think it makes sense for him to lose his mind if the story intended to challenge the notion of there being perfection, with it existing only when you base it off being imperfect, hence an illusion thing, so all things Cell stated to be perfect (highlighting power, mentality) were broken with him losing his mind as well, driving this potential point.

 

[Papasmurf]

Right, but Piccolo Daimao, Vegeta and Freeza all showed instances of a villain with a massive superiority complex flipping his shit when surpassed or challenged so it was nothing new. In fact Cell's whole schtick of appearing on TV to announce he'd drive the world into fear and chaos is a ctrl+v of what Daimao did, plus his goal of achieving his perfect form to get stronger was very similar to Daimao wanting to be young again to regain his lost power.

 

[Warmmedown]

No dbz villain is complex, unless you count Vegeta

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Good? Yeah. Complex? Lmao

 

[Spiral-Force]

The concept of a perfect being is something that could go every which way. But given the nature of the series, his trajectory could be seen coming.

The perfection narrative is meh in retrospect, because -- regardless of him being bested -- he only ended up being Solar System level.

 

[ahill1]

The concept of a perfect being is something that could go every which way. But given the nature of the series, his trajectory could be seen coming.

The perfection narrative is meh in retrospect, because -- regardless of him being bested -- he only ended up being Solar System level.

Couldn't perfection be seen, or perceived, by Cell, as not losing to anyone no matter what, rather than having huge feats of doing anything destructive - wise ?

 

[DBZAOTA482]

He's a pretty good villain and complex by DBZ villain standards.

 

[Yoshi]

Freeza and Piccolo Daimao were more complex than Cell and Boo. One wanted to take over the universe forever and the other wanted the world to be lawless in his prime. Cell is better than Boo since while he at least wanted to be the strongest in the universe, he still wanted to destroy the solar system. Both ultimately just stood for destruction.

 

[DBZAOTA482]

Did he really? All he said is that he had enough energy to destroy the solar system with his Kamehameha. He did say if he won the Cell Games, he will slowly and metaphologically kill everyone on Earth if he won. He likely would have repeated the process on other planets across the universe.

I like Cell's motive wasn't just clichéd "world/universal domination". He wanted power for power's sake and once he achieved it, he sought out greater process. He is also the only villain who genuinely respects Goku's abilities as a fighter.

King Piccolo has a very flat character. Most of the time, he's basically just a big bully. The only interesting thing about him is that he's kinda smart (he killed Shenron so Goku and Co can't use the dragonballs against him), but he's not nearly as smart as Cell as he outsmarted his son, who is better than him in every way.

I agree Freeza is a dynamic character but not as much as Cell imo. He is a much better villain tho.

 

[Spiral-Force]

Couldn't perfection be seen, or perceived, by Cell, as not losing to anyone no matter what, rather than having huge feats of doing anything destructive - wise ?

It appears Cell thought himself Perfect full stop.

I think it's possible for him to think that, while -- us, as the audience -- can look back and recognise that his claim was a hard sell given where he caps at + how far we know scaling can go.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Cell is the best villain. The events that occur leading up to Cell are just amazing. We have Kami unwilling to fuse with Piccolo, but this great threat changes his mind. Piccolo, now fused with Kami, leaves the Lookout looking like a straight up super-hero and we encounter the most grotesque villain ever. He's literally eating people, sucking them bone dry. But our Super Namek has the power to contend with this new villain. Bro, Cell is so cold, he's definitely the best villain Z has ever provided. Freeza is amazing no doubt and is very close, but there's nothing like the Cell Saga. The best Z has to offer, literal peak anime here.

 

[ahill1]

It appears Cell thought himself Perfect full stop.

I think it's possible for him to think that, while -- us, as the audience -- can look back and recognise that his claim was a hard sell given where he caps at + how far we know scaling can go.

Yeah, but would you say, for example, that the perception of perfection should be have validity being viewed in the level of Zeno, or Thanos? Or not necessarily? Would that be more omnipotence? Because if perfection involved basically no flaws, shouldn't he know he could finish someone with moving his fingers, basically?

 

[Spiral-Force]

Yeah, but would you say, for example, that the perception of perfection should be have validity being viewed in the level of Zeno, or Thanos? Or not necessarily? Would that be more omnipotence? Because if perfection involved basically no flaws, shouldn't he know he could finish someone with moving his fingers, basically?

When a character claims to be perfect, and places value on the ability to destroy, you'd think they'd at least have power that covers all spaces as a rough starting point. That way, they're not limited (as far as they know), but the possibility remains for them to be overcome especially if they're an antagonist. They do not necessarily have to be 4D level if timeline alteration is not a theme of the plot - the idea of every celestial object going *poof* is enough of a scare for the protagonist. Nor do they need to be multiversal since the existence of another verse could be unbeknownst to them.

Although Cell's boast was lame and he's severely limited in the grand scheme of it all, the natural conclusion to his philosophy is that his opponent scales below him by default, no matter what tier they're in. So however crazy he appears, it's irrelevant to him since he ought to walk out the victor of any encounter.

A supposedly perfect being suffering a loss is typically embedded into storylines, with the theme of arrogance tying into their downfall. I wouldn't say the plot is invalidated as a result of these tropes since the theme of perfection is strongly accompanied by hyperbole to prove a larger, moral point.

 

[ahill1]

When a character claims to be perfect, and places value on the ability to destroy, you'd think they'd at least have power that covers all spaces as a rough starting point. That way, they're not limited (as far as they know), but the possibility remains for them to be overcome especially if they're an antagonist. They do not necessarily have to be 4D level if timeline alteration is not a theme of the plot - the idea of every celestial object going *poof* is enough of a scare for the protagonist. Nor do they need to be multiversal since the existence of another verse could be unbeknownst to them.

Although Cell's boast was lame and he's severely limited in the grand scheme of it all, the natural conclusion to his philosophy is that his opponent scales below him by default, no matter what tier they're in. So however crazy he appears, it's irrelevant to him since he ought to walk out the victor of any encounter.

A supposedly perfect being suffering a loss is typically embedded into storylines, with the theme of arrogance tying into their downfall. I wouldn't say the plot is invalidated as a result of these tropes since the theme of perfection is strongly accompanied by hyperbole to prove a larger, moral point.

Yeah, I agree with you there, specially your last paragraph. I think the story plays with the illusion of perfection in a way that perfection is always a thing when you're imperfect and striving to become better. I think I misinterpreted your initial response, my bad.