Was Crocodile too weak?

[Future Warrior]

I haven’t gotten past the Alabasta arc yet, so maybe this we’ll get explained later. When witnessing Mihawk display of power, I imagined all of the Warlords being on that level. Granted, Croc technically beat Luffy twice, only surviving due to plot armor. Still though...

 

[Papasmurf]

Crocodile's power gets retconned hard. Not Beerus level retconning, but he still silently gets a huge power boost regardless. In Alabasta he was basically a stronger Arlong with a large group of followers similar to Don Krieg, with Kuro's intellect.

 

[SSJ2]

Mihawk is the strongest of the Shichibukai by an immeasurable amount.

 

[Future Warrior]

Mihawk is the strongest of the Shichibukai by an immeasurable amount.

Ok, even taken that into account, that still doesn't address the topic.

If being a Warlord has nothing to do with combat power then I'm willing to buy this.

 

[SSJ2]

It doesn't. Idk if you care about spoilers, but one of the weakest pirates in the series becomes a Shichibukai later on. Mihawk is an anomaly among them, but Crocodile was still far weaker than he should've been. It's hinted at later on that he was a man who had lost his passion and when he regains it he returns to his full strength. What was seen at Alabasta was a small percentage of what he was truly capable of, apparently.

 

[Future Warrior]

It doesn't. Idk if you care about spoilers, but one of the weakest pirates in the series becomes a Shichibukai later on. Mihawk is an anomaly among them, but Crocodile was still far weaker than he should've been. It's hinted at later on that he was a man who had lost his passion and when he regains it he returns to his full strength. What was seen at Alabasta was a small percentage of what he was truly capable of, apparently.

Honestly, I don't like it. This guy has only been a pirate for a month and he's already capable of beating an experienced one that's recognized by the World Government. I don't have a problem with the fact that he could have slacked off throughout the years, but I think it greatly cheapens his status. He lost because of one exploitable weakness and the power of friendship was against him.

 

[SSJ2]

Yea I agree. There was no reason for Luffy to have survived either of the first two fights with Crocodile either. It's a pretty terrible retcon when you see what Crocodile is capable of later on, and it should've been inconceivable for Luffy to have overcome him. He doesn't start earning his status until the next major arc.

 

[Future Warrior]

Oh yeah, why did that chick save him from death again?

 

[SSJ2]

She is interested in the D clan (or she wants the D).

 

[Captain Cadaver]

As Kenshi said, Crocodile was definitely far too weak when considering how hard his power was retconned in Marineford for as cheap a motivation as "I regained muh motivation" despite being imprisoned, in which he's presented as definitely being one of the stronger Shichibukai. Going by his Alabasta feats though, he'd be the 2nd weakest Shichibukai in the series with the gap between he and even the third weakest being astronomical, and it's pretty ironic that he'd later be treat as being very tanky despite his Alabasta feats at best presenting him as a glass cannon .

Not Beerus level retconning

I'd say Crocodile's power was a far bigger retcon writing-wise. At least Super presents the idea that Galu didn't make Beerus fight seriously from the start and his power was mainly retconned through some off-hand statements in the anime, with the manga being mostly without any power chain inconsistencies that aren't impossible to cover up with the reveal of Hakai being a major factor in future events, not to mention Beerus' power ultimately not being integral to the plot. Meanwhile, Crocodile's power retcon is a pretty large plot hole as he'd have oneshotted Luffy in Alabasta with even a fraction of his Marineford power regardless of the liquid tactics and him toughening up so much in Impel Down just due to resolve is absurd, to say the least.

Honestly, I don't like it. This guy has only been a pirate for a month and he's already capable of beating an experienced one that's recognized by the World Government. I don't have a problem with the fact that he could have slacked off throughout the years, but I think it greatly cheapens his status. He lost because of one exploitable weakness and the power of friendship was against him.

Be prepared for this problem to be repeated ad naseum .

 

[SSJ2]

How does motivation make you become physically stronger by an immeasurable magnitude?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Through the magic of poor writing in a Battle Shonen .

 

[Future Warrior]

Does Luffy at any point get utterly beaten by anyone? I don't mean losing and then coming back seconds later to whoop their ass, but actually lose definitively. I mostly like Luffy as a character, but at this point it's getting old with him playing hero at the last moment to save the day. Maybe I'm just too used to HxH where the main character doesn't constantly win through his obstacles. Speaking of which, it really feels Luffy was destined by some higher being with how much luck he has by his side.

I think it would have been way better written for Crocodile to be such as threat that none of the Straw Hats could win against him, and he loses by some other means rather than through a 1v1 brawl.

 

[SSJ2]

Yea he gets wrecked several times.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Does Luffy at any point get utterly beaten by anyone? I don't mean losing and then coming back seconds later to whoop their ass, but actually lose definitively. I mostly like Luffy as a character, but at this point it's getting old with him playing hero at the last moment to save the day.

He does get utterly beaten quite a few times in the later arcs, though a lot of these are unfortunately followed by a return to the status quo with Luffy taking about as much of a lesson from these failures as Super Galu.

Speaking of which, it really feels Luffy was destined by some higher being with how much luck he has by his side.

That's actually somewhat accurate when it comes to the later arcs and how his familial ties really test the suspension of disbelief of how special he's being presented as. Without spoiling anything, his luck up to that point is nothing compared to the kind of plot armouring he'd get later on.

 

[SSJ2]

It's actually hinted at in chapter 100 that Luffy's journey is somewhat predetermined.

 

[ahill1]

Alabasta Crocodile yeah, I think he was definitely too weak. His bounty also seems to reflect that when most fodders from part 1 already brandish a bounty of 100,000,000... that seems to be nothing for the later part of the series. That's a problem with power scaling, I think Oda didn't plan for things to extend as much, so when you look back, even a foe as well regarded like Crocodile seems little more than fodder when you do the match going from the Luffy that defeated him back in Alabasta.

Iirc Oda also stated that he regretted a little of having Croc being done-in as early, and as you'll see from later part of the series, Crocodile will feel way more empowered... lilkely matching Oda's later feelings of where he should stand.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Iirc Oda also stated that he regretted a little of having Croc being done-in as early

I thought so too, but it turns out that supposed SBS statement was just a fake rumour.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Spoiler

[youtube]gKZRqe0Iyww[/youtube]

 

[SSJ2]

Spoiler

[youtube]gKZRqe0Iyww[/youtube]

He was weaker than StrawHatCrew.