Was numbering the Super-Saiyan forms misleading/contradictory?

[theallpowerfulpuipui]

What?

With all due respect Mister...I think you missed the point, too.

That's why I'm all right now.

 

[Diamond Ryan]

With all due respect Mister...I think you missed the point, too.

That's why I'm all right now.

 

[Void]

What else would they have said instead of SS2 and SS3? Super Saiyan Sparky and Super Saiyan Luscious Locks?

 

[Fantastische Hure]

What else would they have said instead of SS2 and SS3? Super Saiyan Sparky and Super Saiyan Luscious Locks?

Something that'd have completely separated the transformation from the first one. Even-though I agree it's probably too much of a hassle to come-up with one anyway.

Maybe Super-Saiyan Better?

 

[Void]

Numbering the Super-Saiyan transformations make it sound as if Super-Saiyan 2 is the next step-up from Super-Saiyan. In the Cell Saga, though Super-Saiyan 2 was treated as if that was better than Super-Saiyan in every-way, like Super-Saoyan but better Super-Saiyan. As if that was its own transformation, not just an extension/follow-up to the first Super-Saiyan transformation.

I believe SS2 was originally listed as Grade 4 in some garbage Daiz somewhere, the only other title I've really seen is 'Super Saiyan that has surpassed the Super Saiyan wall" - which definitely implies it to be superior to normal Super Saiyan. I guess Super Saiyan 2 was just Goku's lazy way of saying that, kind of like how Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan was just called Blue. Also, I believe the only time it is actually called Super Saiyan 2 is in the manga when Goku is explaining it to Boo, so I guess the Saiyan's themselves don't really care about the title.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Numbering the Super-Saiyan transformations make it sound as if Super-Saiyan 2 is the next step-up from Super-Saiyan. In the Cell Saga, though Super-Saiyan 2 was treated as if that was better than Super-Saiyan in every-way, like Super-Saoyan but better Super-Saiyan. As if that was its own transformation, not just an extension/follow-up to the first Super-Saiyan transformation.

I believe SS2 was originally listed as Grade 4 in some garbage Daiz somewhere, the only other title I've really seen is 'Super Saiyan that has surpassed the Super Saiyan wall" - which definitely implies it to be superior to normal Super Saiyan. I guess Super Saiyan 2 was just Goku's lazy way of saying that, kind of like how Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan was just called Blue. Also, I believe the only time it is actually called Super Saiyan 2 is in the manga when Goku is explaining it to Boo, so I guess the Saiyan's themselves don't really care about the title.

I think you are getting what I say. That's what I mean. The way Super-Saiyan 2 was build-up to and talked about in the Cell Saga as well as even at later-events seem to imply that that's a transformation all on its own. Not much to do with Super-Saiyan (other than looking a-bit like that), but a much better and higher transformation. The number makes it sound as if it's just an improved version of the first Super-Saiyan transformation.

 

[Jerk Store]

What else would they have said instead of SS2 and SS3? Super Saiyan Sparky and Super Saiyan Luscious Locks?

Super Saiyajin Lucious Locks!!!!!! That's what I'm calling SSJ3 from now on.

Thanks for that!

 

[Void]

Goku's explanation of the Super Saiyan forms to Boo was pretty much the best we got from Toriyama on how they work. It's never really explained if SS2 is an extension of Super Saiyan or a separate form entirely. Gotenks doesn't help with this as he seems to just skip over SS2 entirely. But going by the way SS and SS2 are treated, I'd think SS2 is more of a power up that stacks onto Super Saiyan, whereas SS3 seems like an entirely different form.



Just trying to come up with the best explanation I can for you, since no one else seemed to bother.

 

[Future Warrior]

Well you need to unlock SSj to achieve SSj2, and so on, implying it's just an extension of SSj. Though that might not be what Toriyama had in mind when making the Cell Saga.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Goku's explanation of the Super Saiyan forms to Boo was pretty much the best we got from Toriyama on how they work. Its never really explained if SS2 is an extension of Super Saiyan or a separate form entirely. Gohan is doesn't help with this as he seems to just skip over SS2 entirely. But going by the way SS and SS2 are treated, I'd think SS2 is more of a power up that stacks onto Super Saiyan, whereas SS3 seems like an entirely different form.



Just trying to come up with the best explanation I can for you, since no one else seemed to bother.

Appreciate that.

AT's comment around the time from Battle-of-Gods (or was it DragonBall Super?) seems to state that at-least nowadays he sees Super-Saiyan 2 & 3 as just powered-up Super-Saiyan forms. Which is weird, since the opposite seemed to have been implied before.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Well you need to unlock SSj to achieve SSj2, and so on, implying it's just an extension of SSj. Though that might not be what Toriyama had in mind when making the Cell Saga.

The idea was to surpass Super-Saiyan, so maybe it would have been possible, only no-one thought about it before they unlocked Super-Saiyan obviously since they wouldn't know before.

 

[Papasmurf]

I think SSJ2 might not have changed between the Cell and Boo arcs but it was just made less special due to power bloating the same way it was implied SSJ was unreachable for Vegeta until he pulled that "I'm pure, just pure evil" nonsense against 19

 

[Void]

We aren't given any info on how Goku and Gotenks are able to unlock SS3 either, the Boo arc is full of so much lazy writing it makes my head spin. I'd like to think we could come up with a better explanation than PIS, though.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Or maybe Super-Saiyan 2 can still work as just another Super-Saiyan power-up, if you take surpassing Super-Saiyan to mean surpassing Super-Saiyan as they knew at that point, since they still call that Super-Saiyan that surpassed the Super-Saiyan wall later-on.

 

[Super Neko Majin Z]

Anyone else think SSJ3 is really disappointing power-wise compared to SSJ2? The boost isn't that big even if you think Good Buu = Fat Buu, the power increase required to achieve it is unreasonably small if you go by Goku's SSJ2 only being a bit stronger than CG Gohan (he trained seven goddamn years and he's still barely stronger than Gohan? Really?), and even with all that it still has crippling energy drain.

I'd have called SSJ2 "Ascended Saiyan".

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Ssjin2 was just Gohan's full potential unlocked form and not a powered up version of SSjin. Toriyama changed it on Boo arc.