Was Tao past his peak?

[GreatSaiyaman123]

When he fought Goku. He’d only been an assassin for 20 years, and although he’s got some wrinkles he looks fairly in shape. Nowhere as aged as old ballsacks like Roshi, Tsuru or Kami. Does anything suggest Tao used to be stronger?

 

[Animelover5487]

I think Tao is just stronger than everyone in the 22nd minus Goku of course, Tenshinhan, Roshi and possibly Crane Hermit (I think him and Tao were rivals).

It makes no sense for Tien to think Yamcha is subpar at best but yet be surprised by someone killing Tao if Tao wasn't much stronger.

The events of the Baba Tournament can be easily retconed imo, or alternatively Goku was holding back vs Gohan which makes sense since Tao was actually trying to kill him and Goku actually praised Tao's strength while he said nothing about Gohan's power and Goku's KHH was much stronger than his from what I remember.

 

[Hector]

I think it would make great sense to retcon that 22nd Goku wasn't much stronger than 3 years prior. I don't see how he got stronger when all he did was roaming here and there.

 

[ahill1]

He got way stronger, dude.

 

[SSJ2]

The only thing that suggests that Tao might have been much stronger is that both Roshi and Tsuru used to be much stronger, though they are both older than Tao. If he was stronger in the past, it would've been strange for Tsuru not to have been aware of his great decline in power.

 

[Animelover5487]

The only thing that suggests that Tao might have been much stronger is that both Roshi and Tsuru used to be much stronger, though they are both older than Tao. If he was stronger in the past, it would've been strange for Tsuru not to have been aware of his great decline in power.

So do you think Tao is stronger than the 22nd budokai characters (minus the heavy hitters like Goku, Tien and Roshi)?

 

[SIAD]

I firmly believe that Tao Pai Pai was outclassed by Goku, Tenshinhan, Roshi, Tsuru, Yamcha, Krillin, Chaoz, and King Chappa at TB22.

Perhaps Tao Pai Pai had weakened over the years and hadn't seen Tsuru for a long time.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Perhaps Tao Pai Pai had weakened over the years and hadn't seen Tsuru for a long time.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/5/50/TaoAndShen2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110403153342

 

[SSJ2]

So do you think Tao is stronger than the 22nd budokai characters (minus the heavy hitters like Goku, Tien and Roshi)?

I don't. I recognize it's difficult to reconcile this with Tsuru/Tenshinhan not being shocked by Krillin, Yamcha, etcs level of power, but I can't see it any other way. It's possible they were simply overrating Tao for some reason. Tsuru had definitely seen Tao in the semi-near future, but there's no indication that he would've fought Tao or understood how strong he was at this time. I'm also not entirely opposed to the idea of Tao getting weaker over time. Tenshinhan trained with Tao when he was presumably much younger, so it's possible he held him in higher regard due to his legendary status and wasn't being objective about how strong he really was.

 

[Papasmurf]

I don't. I recognize it's difficult to reconcile this with Tsuru/Tenshinhan not being shocked by Krillin, Yamcha, etcs level of power, but I can't see it any other way. It's possible they were simply overrating Tao for some reason. Tsuru had definitely seen Tao in the semi-near future, but there's no indication that he would've fought Tao or understood how strong he was at this time. I'm also not entirely opposed to the idea of Tao getting weaker over time. Tenshinhan trained with Tao when he was presumably much younger, so it's possible he held him in higher regard due to his legendary status and wasn't being objective about how strong he really was.

Tsuru mentioned that Tao's power had risen to a multiple of his original strength upon his mechanization which tells me he was aware of organic Tao's capabilities to an extent

 

[SSJ2]

Tao was the one who proclaimed it initially though. It seemed like a pretty general statement from Tsuru that was pointing out the obvious.

 

[Papasmurf]

Maybe a side effect of the painkiller drugs used when mechanizing Tao drew out his former, hidden power like the Berserker Armor does when dulling pain

 

[Goku9001]

I think it would make great sense to retcon that 22nd Goku wasn't much stronger than 3 years prior. I don't see how he got stronger when all he did was roaming here and there.

Goku definitely had gotten much stronger but not the "10x stronger" than fans like to believe if Tao Pai Pai is considered as a relevant benchmark even after Tenshinhan battles Tenshinhan. Remember, Goku was explicitly stated to represent the limits of the human race by Piccolo Daimao and that should encapsulate Roshi's sensei who is presumably stronger than himself in his Prime.

Chapter: 135, P6.1
Kame-sennin: “Despite the cute name, [Piccolo] was an outrageously fearsome person…His strength was extremely overwhelming…[ ] He was an opponent we were utterly unable to oppose; not only my younger self or Tsuru-sennin, but even our master, Mutaito. ”

Chapter: 144, P7.1
Context: after seeming to kill Goku
Piccolo: “Naturally, this level is about as far as a human could go.”

22nd Goku also surpassed Korin which is a huge deal.

Chapter: 150, P13.2-4
Context: Goku asks Karin to train him more
Karin: “Unfortunately…There’s nothing more for me to teach you…[ ] Yeah…I understand how you feel, but… You’ve already acquired enough power to surpass even me”…
Note: Previously, I had mistakenly put that Goku had almost gotten more power than Karin, due to carelessly mistaking mou sude ni/"already" for mou sugu ni/"almost"/"very soon". Sorry about that.

There's no mistaking that Goku got significantly stronger but that is limited by Tao Pai Pai remaining as a relevant benchmark. If I had to guess, Goku likely got 2-3x stronger since his battle with Grandpa Gohan.

 

[Hector]

Goku definitely had gotten much stronger but not the "10x stronger" than fans like to believe if Tao Pai Pai is considered as a relevant benchmark even after Tenshinhan battles Tenshinhan. Remember, Goku was explicitly stated to represent the limits of the human race by Piccolo Daimao and that should encapsulate Roshi's sensei who is presumably stronger than himself in his Prime.

Chapter: 135, P6.1
Kame-sennin: “Despite the cute name, [Piccolo] was an outrageously fearsome person…His strength was extremely overwhelming…[ ] He was an opponent we were utterly unable to oppose; not only my younger self or Tsuru-sennin, but even our master, Mutaito. ”

Chapter: 144, P7.1
Context: after seeming to kill Goku
Piccolo: “Naturally, this level is about as far as a human could go.”

22nd Goku also surpassed Korin which is a huge deal.

Chapter: 150, P13.2-4
Context: Goku asks Karin to train him more
Karin: “Unfortunately…There’s nothing more for me to teach you…[ ] Yeah…I understand how you feel, but… You’ve already acquired enough power to surpass even me”…
Note: Previously, I had mistakenly put that Goku had almost gotten more power than Karin, due to carelessly mistaking mou sude ni/"already" for mou sugu ni/"almost"/"very soon". Sorry about that.

There's no mistaking that Goku got significantly stronger but that is limited by Tao Pai Pai remaining as a relevant benchmark. If I had to guess, Goku likely got 2-3x stronger since his battle with Grandpa Gohan.

All you need to do is retcon a few statements during the 22nd tournament, and the "as far as human could go level" can be the one Goku/Gohan showed at Baba Saga.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I don't. I recognize it's difficult to reconcile this with Tsuru/Tenshinhan not being shocked by Krillin, Yamcha, etcs level of power, but I can't see it any other way. It's possible they were simply overrating Tao for some reason. Tsuru had definitely seen Tao in the semi-near future, but there's no indication that he would've fought Tao or understood how strong he was at this time. I'm also not entirely opposed to the idea of Tao getting weaker over time. Tenshinhan trained with Tao when he was presumably much younger, so it's possible he held him in higher regard due to his legendary status and wasn't being objective about how strong he really was.

He didn’t have this sort of bias with Tsuru though, since he has no problem acknowledging to himself that Roshi is stronger. But maybe it’s because he liked Tao more? He did want to be an assassin just like him, after all.

 

[Yoshi]

Tao Pai Pai was over 200 years old, just like Roshi and Tsuru. So the logical answer would be yes. LOL.

 

[Animelover5487]

Tao Pai Pai was over 200 years old, just like Roshi and Tsuru. So the logical answer would be yes. LOL.

Tao didn't show the appearance of extreme age/being his prime like Roshi and Tsuru did.

 

[FeatsofPower]

How can Tsuru and Tao be brothers if Tsuru is hundreds of years old and Tao is not?

 

[Papasmurf]

How can Tsuru and Tao be brothers if Tsuru is hundreds of years old and Tao is not?

Tao is like 280 according to the Daizenshuu

 

[FeatsofPower]

I firmly believe that Tao Pai Pai was outclassed by Goku, Tenshinhan, Roshi, Tsuru, Yamcha, Krillin, Chaoz, and King Chappa at TB22.

Perhaps Tao Pai Pai had weakened over the years and hadn't seen Tsuru for a long time.

Exactly