What if Goku got a Zenkai Power, after Kale LSSJ hit Goku SSJB (Suppressed vs Kale)?

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Caulifla saw Goku SSJ2 (Vs Jiren)?

I think so. Everybody stopped fighting to watch.

 

[Goku9001]

I think Caulifla was getting stronger in that match while Goku was recovering. When Goku and Kefla faced each other, they both greatly increased their power.

I would disagree. Whis talks about their increases in energy and relates it to their Saiyan physiology and constant ability to evolve. Goku and Caulifa were constantly bouncing off each other due to their sheer will to win hence why both of their powers increased in response to the other.

 

[FeatsofPower]

So Vegeta can't fight Goku anymore when he fights Kefla?

 

[Papasmurf]

I would disagree. Whis talks about their increases in energy and relates it to their Saiyan physiology and constant ability to evolve. Goku and Caulifa were constantly bouncing off each other due to their sheer will to win hence why both of their powers increased in response to the other.

So how did Goku fend off both SSJ2 Caulifla and SSJ2 Kale for a time in just SSJ2? It's clear Kale is above his SSJ2 too judging by her ability to knock away a charged blast from his SSJG form.

 

[Goku9001]

So how did Goku fend off both SSJ2 Caulifla and SSJ2 Kale for a time in just SSJ2? It's clear Kale is above his SSJ2 too judging by her ability to knock away a charged blast from his SSJG form.

What I'm saying is that Goku's increase in energy was not a result of him recovering his energy but a result of his Saiyan physiology which is known for allowing them to grow stronger as they battle. That's simply what Goku did. He wasn't just recovering his energy. He was growing stronger hence why he performed better against a stronger version of Kale.

The way I see it is this:

Super Saiyan Blue Goku (vs. Jiren) > Super Saiyan God Goku (vs. Kale/Caulifa) > Controlled FPSSJ Kale > Berserker Kale ~ Super Saiyan Blue Goku (Initial ToP)

 

[FeatsofPower]

Ok, so Goku needs to be vastly stronger than Vegeta then, which doesn't seem to be implied.

 

[Goku9001]

Ok, so Goku needs to be vastly stronger than Vegeta then, which doesn't seem to be implied.

Yes, that seems to be the case until after Goku's battle with Kefla.

 

[SIAD]

@Goku9001
@Animelover5487

Do you think Goku got stronger as he fought Ribrianne? Or maybe he was strengthened by seeing how scared Jiren defeated Maji-Kayo in Episode 107? Or maybe because he gets mad when Frost starts hitting Roshi and Goku can't go to defend him because Ribrianne crosses?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Ok, so Goku needs to be vastly stronger than Vegeta then, which doesn't seem to be implied.

It’s totally implied. Vegeta is playing second fiddle with Toppo while Goku takes Kefla on his own.

@Goku9001
@Animelover5487

Do you think Goku got stronger as he fought Ribrianne? Or maybe he was strengthened by seeing how scared Jiren defeated Maji-Kayo in Episode 107? Or maybe because he gets mad when Frost starts hitting Roshi and Goku can't go to defend him because Ribrianne crosses?

I don’t think Goku got any power ups until he fought Caulifla. Maybe vs Kale, but that’s about it.

 

[SIAD]

It’s totally implied. Vegeta is playing second fiddle with Toppo while Goku takes Kefla on his own.




I don’t think Goku got any power ups until he fought Caulifla. Maybe vs Kale, but that’s about it.

But clearly Goku got stronger between Episode 106 and Episode 109.

SSJB Goku went from being inferior to SSJB Vegeta to being at least at the same level as SSJB Vegeta.

 

[Animelover5487]

But clearly Goku got stronger between Episode 106 and Episode 109.

SSJB Goku went from being inferior to SSJB Vegeta to being at least at the same level as SSJB Vegeta.

Goku doesn't get to the same level as Vegeta until after Kefla imo. Which makes sense as Vegeta trained hard in the gravity chamber while Goku mostly recruited people while doing a bit of training in between to shake off the rust and maybe get a little stronger.

 

[SIAD]

I think Goku SSJB (Vs Jiren) reaches the power of Vegeta SSJB (ToP Start), because the Gods of U11 talk about Jiren defeating Goku in his maximum transformation, it would mean that everyone would know that facing Jiren is completely useless. But on the other hand, we know that the Gods know about Goku SSJB Kaioken.

I think maybe at that moment that Goku rested, after the fight against Harmira and Prum. He surely had an important Power Up and went from being slightly stronger than Ribrianne to being much superior to Super-Ribrianne in Base state.

Vegeta Base (Start ToP) = Goku Base (Vs Jiren) >> Goku Base (Suppressed vs. Super-Ribrianne) >= Super-Ribrianne > Goku Base (Suppressed vs. Ribrianne) = Goku Base (Start ToP) > Ribrianne.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I think Goku (Start of ToP) >= Vegeta (Start of ToP). A magazine says Goku and Freeza were tied for the strongest in their team.

 

[SIAD]

I really don't think that magazine is right. It was clearly shown that SSJB Vegeta matched against Toppo and the latter was at least much stronger than SSJB Goku (Exhibition Tournament).

 

[Animelover5487]

I think maybe at that moment that Goku rested, after the fight against Harmira and Prum. He surely had an important Power Up and went from being slightly stronger than Ribrianne to being much superior to Super-Ribrianne in Base state.

Saiyans get a power up when pushed to their limit in battle. Nobody prior to Jiren remotely made Goku get even remotely serious. Goku went Blue multiple times before fighting Jiren (Nink, Trio de Danger, Kale, Maji Kiyo, Super Ribrianne) but none of those can really be taken seriously, as it not only contradicts prior showings from those characters but Goku is a notorious "overkiller", Goku went Blue just to stop himself from falling out of a spaceship vs those alien poachers.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

@Animelover5487 how strong you think Kale is? Toppo was impressed with her power.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Saiyans get a power up when pushed to their limit in battle. Nobody prior to Jiren remotely made Goku get even remotely serious. Goku went Blue multiple times before fighting Jiren (Nink, Trio de Danger, Kale, Maji Kiyo, Super Ribrianne) but none of those can really be taken seriously, as it not only contradicts prior showings from those characters but Goku is a notorious "overkiller", Goku went Blue just to stop himself from falling out of a spaceship vs those alien poachers.

How do you know Goku wasn't just recovering his power the whole time?

 

[Goku9001]

How do you know Goku wasn't just recovering his power the whole time?

Because Whis blatantly states that Caulifa and Goku's identity as Saiyans were what was specifically causing their power to grow and evolve in response to each other's.

 

[Animelover5487]

@Animelover5487 how strong you think Kale is? Toppo was impressed with her power.

Goku said he would only use a "little" more power against her after turning Blue from SSJ2. Goku is probably stronger in his second fight with the Saiyan females but I wouldn't imagine it would be to a very great extent since Goku was still recovering his stamina. And I don't take Jiren stepping in to one-shot her as an indication of Kale being Blue tier since he also stepped in vs Maji Kiyo which left Goku equally impressed by the one-shot.

In any case, Kale is at least weaker than SSJ3 Goku by their second fight since her and Caulifia were astonished by his power and viewed it as a level to strive for.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Remember Goku rather go Blue that. Ssj3 right? So he might be very suppressed.