Which Cell is Dabura comparable to?

[Evil Vegeta]

Perfect Cell. It wouldn't make much sense to compare him to anything less.

 

[Yoshi]

Yeah. I mean, he barely even saw his other forms

Well, he actually gauged Semi Perfect Cell's initial strength when he got back to the lookout. But like I said, I know that he wasn't thinking of Semi Perfect Cell when he made that statement.

 

[SSJ2]

Probably means he thinks it's the most likely scenario. If he says it's way stronger than he thought, then it's way stronger than the "probably".

Let's say I say "SSJ2 is probably about as good as me on Hockey" and then I see you playing and say "he's way better than I thought"... it means you're way better than me. I said "probably", but the probably doesn't take away from the sentence... his later estimation conforms to this.

I'm not saying that it detracts from the statement. What I mean is that "probably about" is the loosest of terms ever used to describe someone's power level. In the entirety of the strength checker there is only one instance of this being used. For the sample size they were working with, along with the fact that Dabura presumably had no ki signature to sense, "probably about" is just a rough estimation of what was seen. If Toriyama wanted to give us a definitive quote he would've said, "he's as strong as a guy named Cell from 7 years ago." He left it open to some interpretation, in fact, I'd say it's unnecessary to even assign an exact level of Cell that he was being compared to given there was such an ambiguous quote.

 

[Sebiña4444]

Tras la comparación de Goku de Dabura y Cell, surgieron las dudas.
Daizenshuu 7 menciona que la fuerza de Dabura es similar a la de Cell.
The Legend Of Manga es más específico, mencionando que la fuerza de Dabura es similar a la de Perfect Cell. Este se basa en el paralelismo que se hace en The Legend Of Manga, de Kaioshin con Goku de los Cell Games.
Kaioshin = Goku (Juegos de celular)
Dabura = Célula Perfecta.
Daizenshuu 7 afirma que la fuerza de Dabura está versada en magia, por lo que tendrá una ventaja sobre Perfect Cell gracias a sus técnicas. Aunque tiene ventajas por su magia. Daizenshuu 7 y Dragon Box mencionaron que Gohan luchó contra Dabura en SSJ2. Dabura lo dominó al oxidar sus habilidades. De modo que:
Kaioshin = Goku (Juegos de Cell) ~ SSJ Gohan (Buu Saga) < Perfect Cell = Dabura < Gohan SSJ2 ~ SSJ Gohan (Juegos de Cell) < Super Perfect Cell < SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games)

 

[ahill1]

I'm not saying that it detracts from the statement. What I mean is that "probably about" is the loosest of terms ever used to describe someone's power level. In the entirety of the strength checker there is only one instance of this being used. For the sample size they were working with, along with the fact that Dabura presumably had no ki signature to sense, "probably about" is just a rough estimation of what was seen. If Toriyama wanted to give us a definitive quote he would've said, "he's as strong as a guy named Cell from 7 years ago." He left it open to some interpretation, in fact, I'd say it's unnecessary to even assign an exact level of Cell that he was being compared to given there was such an ambiguous

But it doesn't change things. Again, probably means Goku thinks that's the likely scenario. If he says Dabura's way stronger than he thought then he's way stronger than the probably. He said "probably as strong as Cell"... meaning he thinks Cell's level is the most likely scenario. It's a loose estimation, but he's leaning to as strong as Cell. Again, I can say "his battle power is probably as high as 2,000,000"... but if I say "his battle power is way higher than I thought", then it means it's way higher than the probably 2,000,000. I thought it was probably as high as 2,000,000.

Also, he doesn't specify Cell. I'd say the level Cell used against him is the lowest bar possible. It doesn't make sense to go below that. Even 90% of the level Cell used against him is a stretch. It'd be like "he's probably about as strong as Cell..." with his loose estimations justifying it being like 40% of Cell. Doesn't work.

 

[SSJ2]

None of what you're saying contradicts my viewpoint though, which you disagree with because you don't view Cell's true speed being a large power up - and I do.

CG Goku: 100
Cell @ Goku: 106
CG Gohan: 140
Cell @ Gohan: 135

Dabura (estimation): 106
Boo arc Gohan: 115
Dabura (actual): 115

I'm fine with this because I consider Dabura's magic to be part of what is impressing Goku. Dabura being almost 1.1x stronger than the initial estimate could qualify as being "way stronger" by the standards of battle power gaps. And if you really have an issue with the numbers you can always increase Cell Games Gohan's level to stretch it out a bit.

 

[SIAD]

I still have Dabura stronger than SPC.

Goku SSJ (CG) = 32

Kid Gohan SSJ = 50
Kid Gohan SSJ2 = 100
(Enraged) = 144

Perfect Cell (Suppressed vs. Goku) = 35.2
Perfect Cell (Suppressed vs. Gohan) = 49.28
SPC = 100

Teen Gohan SSJ2 = 92

Dabura (Suppressed vs. Gohan) = 100
(FP) = 112.5

Vegeta SSJ2 (Pre Majin) = 125

Goku SSJ2 (Boo) = 156.25

 

[Fantastische Hure]

So we’re just going to pretend like we didn’t see the post by @ZGokuHD ?

 

[SSJ2]

Does anyone here know what it says? @ahill1 probably does

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

He’s saying Dabra is comparable to FP Perfect Cell according to Daizenshuu 7 and Legend of the Manga.

 

[ahill1]

None of what you're saying contradicts my viewpoint though, which you disagree with because you don't view Cell's true speed being a large power up - and I do.

CG Goku: 100
Cell @ Goku: 106
CG Gohan: 140
Cell @ Gohan: 135

Dabura (estimation): 106
Boo arc Gohan: 115
Dabura (actual): 115

I'm fine with this because I consider Dabura's magic to be part of what is impressing Goku. Dabura being almost 1.1x stronger than the initial estimate could qualify as being "way stronger" by the standards of battle power gaps. And if you really have an issue with the numbers you can always increase Cell Games Gohan's level to stretch it out a bit.

I'm not trying to cobtradict what you're saying, I'm just saying I find the view a stretch. Dabura's about as strong as the Cell Goku fought... and then he's way stronger than that. And then some assume Gohan held a power advantage vs Dabura... and is still way weaker than the Gohan from the CGs. That can't fit too well.

I don't believe Cell's real speed is all that. He doesn't even mention his power going up.

 

[ahill1]

He said this, more or less:


After Goku's comparison of Dabura and Cell, doubts arose.

Daizenshuu 7 mentions that Dabura's strength is similar to Cell's.

The Legend Of Manga is more specific, mentioning that Dabura's strength is similar to Perfect Cell's. This is based on the parallelism made in The Legend Of Manga, of Kaioshin with Goku from the Cell Games.
Kaioshin = Goku (Cell Games)
Dabura = Perfect Cell.

Daizenshuu 7 states that Dabura's strength is versed in magic, so he will have an advantage over Perfect Cell thanks to his techniques. Although he has advantages for the magic he possesses. Daizenshuu 7 and Dragon Box mentioned that Gohan fought Dabura in SSJ2. Dabura overpowered him by putting his abilities in practice. So that:
Kaioshin = Goku (Cell Games) ~ SSJ Gohan (Buu Saga) < Perfect Cell = Dabura < Gohan SSJ2 ~ SSJ Gohan (Cell Games) < Super Perfect Cell < SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games)

 

[SSJ2]

I'm not trying to cobtradict what you're saying, I'm just saying I find the view a stretch. Dabura's about as strong as the Cell Goku fought... and then he's way stronger than that. And then some assume Gohan held a power advantage vs Dabura... and is still way weaker than the Gohan from the CGs. That can't fit too well.

I don't believe Cell's real speed is all that. He doesn't even mention his power going up.

Then it seems like we have a mere difference of opinion. I'm fine with a 1.1x difference qualifying as being way stronger. There aren't any other uses of "way stronger" in the strength checker, but there is one for "far stronger."

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P10.3-4, P11.2-3
Context: after Goku and Vegeta fight a bit
Goku: “Un-unbelievable…I thought I trained considerably in the afterlife…But we’re completely even…You trained more than me…”
Vegeta: “…No, that’s not it…I think I did perform more special training than you, but you’re a greater genius than I am…No matter how much time passed, this gap wouldn’t change…I realized this, when you fought with that monster Babidi sent…It was a shock…That’s why I secretly resolved myself…[ ] At the tournament, the people who knew that pair who Babidi made into his underlings said that they had become far stronger than before…I remembered that, and I thought…That if I were taken over by him too, then the gap between you and me would vanish…And I was right…”

In this context, if Majin Vegeta also became far stronger from his increase, I'm perfectly fine with taking a minimalist approach with Dabura.

Cell didn't need to mention his power going up though. We saw that when he bear hugged Gohan and then after when he kicked Gohan back to the ground with ease. His initial level of power wasn't doing that against a serious SSJ Gohan.

 

[ahill1]

Then it seems like we have a mere difference of opinion. I'm fine with a 1.1x difference qualifying as being way stronger. There aren't any other uses of "way stronger" in the strength checker, but there is one for "far stronger."

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P10.3-4, P11.2-3
Context: after Goku and Vegeta fight a bit
Goku: “Un-unbelievable…I thought I trained considerably in the afterlife…But we’re completely even…You trained more than me…”
Vegeta: “…No, that’s not it…I think I did perform more special training than you, but you’re a greater genius than I am…No matter how much time passed, this gap wouldn’t change…I realized this, when you fought with that monster Babidi sent…It was a shock…That’s why I secretly resolved myself…[ ] At the tournament, the people who knew that pair who Babidi made into his underlings said that they had become far stronger than before…I remembered that, and I thought…That if I were taken over by him too, then the gap between you and me would vanish…And I was right…”

In this context, if Majin Vegeta also became far stronger from his increase, I'm perfectly fine with taking a minimalist approach with Dabura.

Cell didn't need to mention his power going up though. We saw that when he bear hugged Gohan and then after when he kicked Gohan back to the ground with ease. His initial level of power wasn't doing that against a serious SSJ Gohan.

Spopovitch's increase doesn't have to be the same for Majin Vegeta. Bobbidi's power takes into account the innate potential a fighter has. Spopovitch lost to Mr. Satan before... and was way stronger than Videl later. Vegeta couldn't have received the same increase imo. Maybe he could have, it's just not necessary.

When he says Spopo got far stronger, it doesn't mean Vegeta's expecting to get far stronger too... just a boost high enough to equal Goku.

Well, he should have noted that. He only mentioned speed. The bear hug is sometimes tough to get out of, see Raditz vs Goku. And he did that after he tricked Gohan by using Freeza's attacks as a decoy. Cell kicking Gohan away can maybe mean Gohan got a little weaker post the hug crushing (he was all hurting in the ground for a moment) or Cell's speed was high enough Gohan couldn't intercept. Cell just made a point to increase his speed.

I generally go with 1.25x+ with way stronger statements... otherwise we could do minimalist approaches and assume many far stronger instances in fights are 1.1x. 1.1x can maybe denote a clear superiority in fights, but power ups should be treated differently, I say.