Which human had most control over ki?

[SSJ2]

Out of all the humans, who was the master of ki control?

 

[GSM123]

I’d say it depends on the era. Yamcha seems very gifted since he learns the Kamehameha and is the first to create his own Ki technique, and Tenshinhan is perhaps even better than him to replicate a Kamehameha just by watching it. Tenshinhan was also capable of honing the Kikoho enough to pin down Semi Cell and deflect a blast from Gotenks-Boo.

But I’d give this to Kuririn at the end of the day. His homing blasts and Kienzan are very innovative techniques that seem to require considerable Ki Control.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Hard to say as each of the 3 top Earthlings in Z have their own good and distinct uses of it. Kuririn has quite a varied array of signature skills such as the Kienzan and the Kakusandan that are fairly complex techniques, Tenshinhan is able to draw out the most power with his Shin Kikoho and Yamcha's Sokidan is one he developed by himself and requires a great amount of concentration to freely control, to the extent Kami was very impressed by his ability to use such a technique.

Overall, I'd go with Kuririn as not only does he have a vast array of skillful techniques, but his Ki sensing is very refined as well, to the point he could judge the depth of Cell's power from just one casual attack as well as catch on to Trunks holding back his Grade 3 form.

 

[Future Warrior]

Tenshinhan is the first person to introduce a variety of new and unique techniques that were considered out of the ordinary when he made his debut, so at the very least at that point he was far more advanced in Ki application than the other warriors. However, as the story progressed a lot of his abilities ended up being learned by others which makes things a bid muddy.

If I had to bet money, I would say Tenshinhan has the edge on Kuririn when it comes to ki control, if only because of how potent his Kikoho is and his third eye is most likely the result of prolonged intense meditation. I'd still say Kuririn is generally the more skilled and strategic fighter by far though.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

his third eye is most likely the result of prolonged intense meditation.

Daizenshuu politely disagrees.

 

[Future Warrior]

his third eye is most likely the result of prolonged intense meditation.

Daizenshuu politely disagrees.

A guidebook made by some random buffoons at Shueisha can say whatever the hell it wants as far as I'm concerned. The alien origin is such a stupid explanation that didn't even need explaining in the first place. It takes away so much from the eastern mythological roots the series is made from.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I wouldn't say their reference to the three-eyed people need necessarily make him an alien and more some unique clan of Earthlings, considering the Daizenshuu never refers to them specifically as aliens. I'd prefer the enlightenment explanation, though it does make things muddy with his initial arrogant personality (though you could assume that was purely a product of Tsuru's teachings and his later characterisation is closer to his "true" self) and Z grounding some of the more fantastical elements of Part 1 seems to be a pretty common thing.

 

[SSJ2]

More evidence that Tenshinhan is >> Krillin.

 

[Future Warrior]

(though you could assume that was purely a product of Tsuru's teachings and his later characterisation is closer to his "true" self)

No reason to think this isn't exactly the case when Roshi himself comments that Ten isn't cut out to be a ruthless killer and was mostly influenced by the expectations of his master.

and Z grounding some of the more fantastical elements of Part 1 seems to be a pretty common thing.

Some of the elements introduced were later given some Sci Fi flourishes to them such as Goku and Piccolo's origin, but that doesn't mean the fantasy elements were altogether abandoned or ''retconned'' should I say.

The Sci Fi flavor also tends to elevate the characters to new depths of storytelling, unlike with the ''Three-eyed people'' that wasn't even remotely mentioned in the story proper and amounted to some off hand comment in a guidebook that wasn't even made by the creator.

 

[GSM123]

unlike with the ''Three-eyed people'' that wasn't even remotely mentioned in the story proper and amounted to some off hand comment in a guidebook that wasn't even made by the creator.

The creator did praise and highly aprove the guidebooks though, and given how this isn't a major retcon by any means (In fact it's just shedding light on a unexplained detail) I don't see what's the problem. As CC pointed out the three-eyed clan wasn't even labeled as a alien species.

 

[Future Warrior]

The creator did praise and highly aprove the guidebooks though, and given how this isn't a major retcon by any means (In fact it's just shedding light on a unexplained detail) I don't see what's the problem. As CC pointed out the three-eyed clan wasn't even labeled as a alien species.

''Praise and highly approve''. Yes, eat up everything a guidebook has to offer because Toriyama looked over it while probably gaining some easy $$$ too.

It's only ''unexplained'' when you don't realize that DB is a martial arts fantasy series where it's expected for there to be batshit crazy techniques being thrown in, all of which is almost 100% of the time achieved through intense training. Body splitting and growing extra limbs isn't exempt from this. We see Piccolo and Kuririn use their own version of it in the anime, there is no need for explaining.

I don't even hate the guidebooks. I think it's mostly a good informative view on the series, but it's one that is created by people who we don't even know the names of which leads to some info added that that are either misinformation or are pointless all together, in my opinion at least.

But you're right that there isn't anything strictly saying that Tenshinhan doesn't have some special genes to explain his ''weirdness'', so more power to you if you think that's the case.

 

[SSJ2]

unlike with the ''Three-eyed people'' that wasn't even remotely mentioned in the story proper and amounted to some off hand comment in a guidebook that wasn't even made by the creator.

The creator did praise and highly aprove the guidebooks though, and given how this isn't a major retcon by any means (In fact it's just shedding light on a unexplained detail) I don't see what's the problem. As CC pointed out the three-eyed clan wasn't even labeled as a alien species.

It’s proof that Tenshinhan is stronger than Krillin due to not being human. That much is stated.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I can't believe you guys are fan of the series at all. You forgot to mention Roshi who can at least use UI briefly but just can't fly that's all.

 

[ahill1]

wasn't the 3 eyed ppl said to be aliens? if so, that's good. there're dog and giraffe-like earthlings, earthlings with no nose and half wolf ones, so I can buy those 3 eyed ppl being a special earthling clan.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I can't believe you guys are fan of the series at all. You forgot to mention Roshi who can at least use UI briefly but just can't fly that's all.

He'd be the top pick if he could fly, but unfortunately he can't do something a teenage girl with basic training could.

As for the Tenshinhan topic, it's worth noting in a Daizenshuu interview that his original seiyuu decided to mention him not being an Earthling.

Suzuoki: So, in the studio, Mako-san would say things to me like, “what a loathsome jerk”. (laughs) Tenshinhan is different from ordinary humans, but his interactions with Chiaotzu showed his humanity, so I wasn’t very conscious of him not being an earthling.

Seems like the word of someone who voiced Ten for over a decade should count for something, though it's worth noting Furuya referred to Yamcha as becoming a ladies man when other guidebooks present the idea his shyness is only absent towards Bulma, so take the interview how you will.

As for the point of his ancestry clashing with the fantastical eastern mythological aspects of early DB, it's worth noting that Toriyama draws from and references a lot of science fiction works from the Red Ribbon Army Arc and onward, one of which may very well be Osamu Tezuka's manga Mitsume ga Tooru in which the protagonist has a third eye due to being a descendant of the three eyed tribe.

Even if taking all that into consideration, I wouldn't use it as a counter to Kuririn being the strongest Earthling or anything like that, considering we aren't made apparent how diluted Ten's ancestry is. It could be the equivalent of a completely white guy being classed as black because their ancestor from five generations ago was Jamaican.

 

[Future Warrior]

As for the point of his ancestry clashing with the fantastical eastern mythological aspects of early DB, it's worth noting that Toriyama draws from and references a lot of science fiction works from the Red Ribbon Army Arc and onward, one of which may very well be Osamu Tezuka's manga Mitsume ga Tooru in which the protagonist has a third eye due to being a descendant of the three eyed tribe.

It's also equally likely that Tenshinhan is inspired by Erlang Shen, a Journey to the West character that has a third eye.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Yeah, I wouldn't dispute that, but it can be an equal measure of both sides. Goku in turn was inspired by Sun Wukong, yet the fantasy element of his origin started to dissipate as time went on and the groundwork for him being more than a human was apparent from the moment he first went Oozaru.

As far as my take on it goes, I'd put equal stock in both. If I were to give a potential backstory for Ten, I'd say that his third eye was a genetic trait, but much like Super Saiyan required intense training and the right mindset to unlock.

 

[GSM123]

''Praise and highly approve''. Yes, eat up everything a guidebook has to offer because Toriyama looked over it while probably gaining some easy $$$ too.

It's only ''unexplained'' when you don't realize that DB is a martial arts fantasy series where it's expected for there to be batshit crazy techniques being thrown in, all of which is almost 100% of the time achieved through intense training. Body splitting and growing extra limbs isn't exempt from this. We see Piccolo and Kuririn use their own version of it in the anime, there is no need for explaining.

I don't even hate the guidebooks. I think it's mostly a good informative view on the series, but it's one that is created by people who we don't even know the names of which leads to some info added that that are either misinformation or are pointless all together, in my opinion at least.

But you're right that there isn't anything strictly saying that Tenshinhan doesn't have some special genes to explain his ''weirdness'', so more power to you if you think that's the case.

Eh, the two aren't mutually exclusive FW, nor is something being left "unexplained" meant as a bad thing. I know how Dragon Ball has magical roots and those details are just part of the lore that don't hurt the story, but it's not a bad thing if guidebooks come and give detail on how this stuff works. In fact that's what guidebooks even exist for: In-Universe trivia.

Yeah judging how accurate guidebooks can be is a tough matter. Akira Toriyama admittedly didn't give a fuck about this kind of stuff, so it gets even harder to know if the staff made research on what they were saying or just made shit up.

 

[Future Warrior]

So I've been doing some digging to see if Toriyama was ever asked about Tenshinhan's third eye, and I've found someone on Kanz post a thread about an interview conducted in 2003 where he was asked questions from fans in foreign countries. The third eye was asked by one of them.

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17921

(11) What's up with the third eye on my main man Tenshinhan? Is Tenshinhan human?
- Charles Moyer, California; Evan Coltin, Via Internet
T: In certain parts of Asia, beings with a third eye on their forehead are thought to be godlike and are said to possess the power of true seeing. It seems that Tenshinhan, who was raised by the evil Tsuru-Sen'nin [Crane Hermit], lost the ability to use the myriad powers of his third eye for good purposes.

It worth noting that the ''Three-eyed people'' was first mentioned in Daizenshuu 4, which came out around 1995. If Toriyama had the idea in mind that Tenshinhan had some alien genes, you'd think that he would hint at it in his answer, especially when the person asked if Ten was even human.

So it seems like the alien backstory is simply just a theory made by the Shueisha staff, and not a concept that was originally thought up by Toriyama.

 

[theallpowerfulpuipui]

Tien can use ki control to hold down semi cell, unless everyone is ready to admit he was much stronger that Frieza. :rape