Why can’t SSJ2 = 2x work?

[GreatSaiyaman123]

@Power Level Guy Goku blocks Piccolo Daimao’s 2nd Bakurikimaha and says he knew it wouldn’t be as strong as the 1st one.

Even as Cell and Gohan charge their Kamehameha’s, Piccolo says it’s useless because Gohan is weaker.

 

[Power Level Guy]

@Power Level Guy Goku blocks Piccolo Daimao’s 2nd Bakurikimaha and says he knew it wouldn’t be as strong as the 1st one.

Sure, when you reach a certain point, or exhaust a certain amount of ki, you no longer can produce another full power one.

So Gohan, despite being less than half can produce a FP Kamehameha, but it's highly doubtful he could do another one.

Even as Cell and Gohan charge their Kamehameha’s, Piccolo says it’s useless because Gohan is weaker.

Gohan is a lot weaker, this is a natural conclusion to make whether it comes down to stamina or whatever. Gohan's reserves are undoubtably smaller than Cell's.

Also, it's not like SPC's Kamehameha initially overruns Gohan's, which it typically would for a character less than half his power.

The fact Gohan's Kamehameha is competitive at all proves that a weakened fighter can still keep up.

 

[ScottyFamalam]

Gohan is stated to have lost over half his power.

Because over half of it went dormant due to his injury.

During the ki blast, Gohan wasn't using all of his power.

Until the end, when he clearly brought out his full power to kill Cell.

It was a full powered Kamehameha despite his actual power level being less than half.

If his power level is locked at 45% due to his injury like you're implying, then he can only fire a 45% powered Kamehameha. Unless he can bring his power level itself to 100%, then his Kamehameha won't be at 100%.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

The fact Gohan's Kamehameha is competitive at all proves that a weakened fighter can still keep up.

Sounds more like Cell is piss weak. Dude has to weaken Gohan to stand a chance.

 

[ScottyFamalam]

Gokuu: Show me one last time…The power we created together! All 45% of it lol
Gokuu: Make your power explode! By using 45% lol

 

[ScottyFamalam]

 

[Power Level Guy]

It’s not that hard guys.

A weakened fighter can still make a FP blast.

Despite Gohan being much weaker than SPC, who rivaled a FP Gohan, Gohan can still use a FP blast that can surpass Cell’s FP blast.

This is literally what happens lol

@ScottyFamalam

Your parody is literally the opposite of what I’m saying my guy, but points for the humor.

 

[Yoshi]

Super Perfect Cell is most likely 90%-95% of Kid Gohan.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Super Perfect Cell is most likely 90%-95% of Kid Gohan.

Yeah he should rival Gohan but also be definitely weaker. Thats a good range.

 

[ahill1]

Well, if we give a moderate rage boost on top of SSJ2, then 2x can work, it just was not 2x for CGs Gohan. I like the rage boost theory because I din really think there's a big gap between Goku and Gohan as MSSJs in the CGs, I think it was a noticeable, moderate gap, but nothing big — nothing like Goku vs Ginyus. Boo saga Gohan was stated to be way, way weaker than his CGs self... But if SSJ teen Gohan is still strong enough to fight on almost equal terms vs someone ~ Cell (level used vs Goku) — Dabra — I think Boo saga SSJ Gohan is like CGs Goku's level... And the big gap between his teen and kid self becomes more apparent as SSJ2.

Also, since Vegeta stated that if Gohan got enraged, that there would be no way to tell whether their superiority over him would be still apparent, with Goku reinforcing that an enraged Gohan is unstoppable, motivating him to release it all vs Dabra or in case Boo awakened... I think the manga suggests there is a difference between SSJ2 teen Gohan and an enraged SSJ2 teen Gohan at least... Which I think could possibly mean this rage pushed CGs Gohan somewhat above what simply the SSJ2 multiplier would leave him at.


CGs

MSSJ Goku : 100
Cell (vs Goku) : 110
MSSJ Gohan : 125
Cell (vs Gohan) : 132

Cell (full power) : 180
Super Perfect Cell : 270
SSJ2 Gohan : 300


Boo Saga


MSSJ Gohan : 110
Dabra : 110
SSJ Vegeta : 135
SSJ Goku : 165


SSJ2 Gohan : 220
SSJ2 Vegeta : 270
SSJ2 Goku : 330

 

[Yoshi]

I don’t even think SSJ3 works as a x4, let alone SSJ2 as a x2.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

It’s not that hard guys.

A weakened fighter can still make a FP blast.

Despite Gohan being much weaker than SPC, who rivaled a FP Gohan, Gohan can still use a FP blast that can surpass Cell’s FP blast.

This is literally what happens lol

@ScottyFamalam

Your parody is literally the opposite of what I’m saying my guy, but points for the humor.

So why is Gohan crying that he’s weakened and can’t beat Cell?

Hold on, if being at 50% doesn’t stop Gohan from firing a FP blast how does this contradict SSJ2 being 2x at all?

Well, if we give a moderate rage boost on top of SSJ2, then 2x can work, it just was not 2x for CGs Gohan. I like the rage boost theory because I din really think there's a big gap between Goku and Gohan as MSSJs in the CGs, I think it was a noticeable, moderate gap, but nothing big — nothing like Goku vs Ginyus. Boo saga Gohan was stated to be way, way weaker than his CGs self... But if SSJ teen Gohan is still strong enough to fight on almost equal terms vs someone ~ Cell (level used vs Goku) — Dabra — I think Boo saga SSJ Gohan is like CGs Goku's level... And the big gap between his teen and kid self becomes more apparent as SSJ2.

Also, since Vegeta stated that if Gohan got enraged, that there would be no way to tell whether their superiority over him would be still apparent, with Goku reinforcing that an enraged Gohan is unstoppable, motivating him to release it all vs Dabra or in case Boo awakened... I think the manga suggests there is a difference between SSJ2 teen Gohan and an enraged SSJ2 teen Gohan at least... Which I think could possibly mean this rage pushed CGs Gohan somewhat above what simply the SSJ2 multiplier would leave him at.


CGs

MSSJ Goku : 100
Cell (vs Goku) : 110
MSSJ Gohan : 125
Cell (vs Gohan) : 132

Cell (full power) : 180
Super Perfect Cell : 270
SSJ2 Gohan : 300


Boo Saga


MSSJ Gohan : 110
Dabra : 110
SSJ Vegeta : 135
SSJ Goku : 165


SSJ2 Gohan : 220
SSJ2 Vegeta : 270
SSJ2 Goku : 330

Good catch ahill, I forgot about that. Gohan and Goku is a moderate gap in the CG but it seems huge.

If we ignore the rage boost, the 2x multiplier gets weird. Not because it’s tight for SSJ2 >>> FP Cell >>> SSJ1, but because Cell would do a huge power up to catch Gohan. This isn’t suggested at all, he just got a little serious.

 

[SSJ2]

@SSJ2 there really isn’t. Gotenks thinking he can beat Boo doesn’t mean anything other than that he’s stupid. Surviving a beating isn’t quantifiable either.

SSJ Gotenks not being 10x SSJ3 Goku was always a matter of convenience, let’s be honest. The closest thing to evidence is Piccolo asking to see Gotenks’ movements.

No point in me explaining GT and Super if you don’t care about either. But they’re all the same series, so the same logic should apply.

You're missing the grand scheme by continuing to debate these points. As I said, I'm not trying to convince you that this view is accurate, only that an argument can be made for them. Whether or not you view that argument as shaky is completely irrelevant to the situation. What I take issue in is when people consistently decide to be extremely minimalist when there is no reason to be - aside from trying to make their battle powers look better.

You can't be arguing in good faith if you're saying GT has any bearing on the original manga. It had zero input from the creator aside from character designs. So now filler is valid to use in these debates as well? How about the movies that were also created by Toei?

I literally just asked you to provide your arguments related to Super. You're the one that is deciding that I don't care for some strange reason.

 

[Power Level Guy]

I don’t even think SSJ3 works as a x4, let alone SSJ2 as a x2.

What makes you say that? 4x has always worked good.

 

[Yoshi]

What makes you say that? 4x has always worked good.

Because SSJ3 is implied to be a bigger boost than SSJ2.

 

[Power Level Guy]

@GreatSaiyaman123

The SSJ2 boost and whether Gohan can use a FP blast are not relevant to each other.

I just said the idea of Ssj Gohan smashing injured SSJ2 Gohan is silly, you know that.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Because SSJ3 is implied to be a bigger boost than SSJ2.

So make SSJ3 bigger

 

[Yoshi]

So make SSJ3 bigger

I would have to make SSJ2 bigger too since x2 doesn’t work.

 

[Power Level Guy]

I would have to make SSJ2 bigger too since x2 doesn’t work.

Yeah I’ve been using 4x and 5x for a while now.

it works perfectly imo.

 

[Yoshi]

I think we misunderstood each other. I said SSJ3 doesn’t work as x4, not SSJ2. And I thought you meant SSJ3 works as x4, not SSJ2.