Why can’t SSJ2 = 2x work?

[GreatSaiyaman123]

@SSJ2 it’s not extreme minimalism. Just that I don’t see a reason to go with 4-5x when 1.33-1.5x boosts are considered massive.

You’d be surprised at how much people use filler nowadays lol. I feel you in regards to sticking to the original manga, but I’d rather to see some coherence across the series when possible. They’re the same universe, pretty much.

In the DBS anime, SSJ2 is stated tens of times base, so 100x at most. In the manga Zeno doesn’t even notice a difference between SSJ2 and 3. Broly using Oozaru power in base (10x) goes from somewhat above SSJ level to tanking SSJG.

@GreatSaiyaman123

The SSJ2 boost and whether Gohan can use a FP blast are not relevant to each other.

I just said the idea of Ssj Gohan smashing injured SSJ2 Gohan is silly, you know that.

So you don’t have a counter to the official multiplier. Got it.

 

[Power Level Guy]

This issue is how injured Gohan relates to SSJ Gohan. That’s a major issue.

The idea that Ssj Gohan would beat Ssj2 Gohan there is absurd.

The official multiplier contradicts the story.

 

[ahill1]

I have Gohan getting ~ 2.5x stronger in the CGs when snapping. Sounds enough to me.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

This issue is how injured Gohan relates to SSJ Gohan. That’s a major issue.

The idea that Ssj Gohan would beat Ssj2 Gohan there is absurd.

The official multiplier contradicts the story.

When does the story say Injured SSJ2 Gohan > SSJ Gohan?

 

[SSJ2]

@SSJ2 it’s not extreme minimalism. Just that I don’t see a reason to go with 4-5x when 1.33-1.5x boosts are considered massive.

You’d be surprised at how much people use filler nowadays lol. I feel you in regards to sticking to the original manga, but I’d rather to see some coherence across the series when possible. They’re the same universe, pretty much.

In the DBS anime, SSJ2 is stated tens of times base, so 100x at most. In the manga Zeno doesn’t even notice a difference between SSJ2 and 3. Broly using Oozaru power in base (10x) goes from somewhat above SSJ level to tanking SSJG.

Assuming the multiplier seems smaller in Super, why can't it be that the multiplier itself changed over time?

 

[Power Level Guy]

When does the story say Injured SSJ2 Gohan > SSJ Gohan?

When does it suggests Gohan regressed to a much weaker form? The story portrays Gohan as a monstrous power still.

 

[Mexican Warrior]

Gohan: 1
~ SSJ2 + rage: 2.5

Cell: 1
~ FP: 1.5
~ SPC: 2.25

Making it 4-5x is just too cumbersome post Cell Games. It just snowballs into unecessary bloat as early as the fusion saga.

Doesn't work because there far too many massive gaps in-between SSJ2 Gohan and SSJ Gohan.

First SSJ Gohan is shown to be slightly inferior to a suppressed Perfect Cell.

So Suppressed Perfect Cell > = SSJ Gohan

Then after Gohan goes SSJ2 and one shots the Cell Juniors, not only does Cell decide to get serious power-wise, but he has one of the longest power up sequences in the anime and manga and the increase is so massive that he thinks he can take on someone who was able to one shot the Cell Juniors with the greatest of ease.

So Full Power Perfect Cell >> Suppressed Perfect Cell > SSJ Gohan.

Then after Gohan proves to still be too much for Cell, Cell decides to go Giant. Just to remind you, Cell's regular Buff form (not even the Giant one) was stated to be Cell's equivalent of SSJ Grade 3, SSJ Grade 3 is stated to be a x10 boost ont op of either SSJ Grade 1 or SSJ Grade 2. While I'm not saying Buff Perfect Cell was x10 stronger than before, the increase was still considerable due to his Buff form being his equivalent of SSJ Grade 3.

Giant Perfect Cell > Buff Perfect Cell > Full Power Perfect Cell >>Suppressed Perfect Cell > SSJ Gohan.

And finally we have SSJ2 Gohan who despite Cell's massive increase in power with his Giant form, he was still able to make him puke Android 18 with just one kick (one kick and a headbutt if you go by the anime).

SSJ2 Gohan >>Giant Perfect Cell > Buff perfect Cell > Full Power Perfect Cell >> Suppressed Perfect Cell > SSJ Gohan.

A x2 gap between SSJ2 Gohan and SSJ Gohan is impossible, far too much to fit inside.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Doesn't work because there far too many massive gaps in-between SSJ2 Gohan and SSJ Gohan.

First SSJ Gohan is shown to be slightly inferior to a suppressed Perfect Cell.

So Suppressed Perfect Cell > = SSJ Gohan

Then after Gohan goes SSJ2 and one shots the Cell Juniors, not only does Cell decide to get serious power-wise, but he has one of the longest power up sequences in the anime and manga and the increase is so massive that he thinks he can take on someone who was able to one shot the Cell Juniors with the greatest of ease.

So Full Power Perfect Cell >> Suppressed Perfect Cell > SSJ Gohan.

Then after Gohan proves to still be too much for Cell, Cell decides to go Giant. Just to remind you, Cell's regular Buff form (not even the Giant one) was stated to be Cell's equivalent of SSJ Grade 3, SSJ Grade 3 is stated to be a x10 boost ont op of either SSJ Grade 1 or SSJ Grade 2. While I'm not saying Buff Perfect Cell was x10 stronger than before, the increase was still considerable due to his Buff form being his equivalent of SSJ Grade 3.

Giant Perfect Cell > Buff Perfect Cell > Full Power Perfect Cell >>Suppressed Perfect Cell > SSJ Gohan.

And finally we have SSJ2 Gohan who despite Cell's massive increase in power with his Giant form, he was still able to make him puke Android 18 with just one kick (one kick and a headbutt if you go by the anime).

SSJ2 Gohan >>Giant Perfect Cell > Buff perfect Cell > Full Power Perfect Cell >> Suppressed Perfect Cell > SSJ Gohan.

A x2 gap between SSJ2 Gohan and SSJ Gohan is impossible, far too much to fit inside.

They are including a rage boost for Gohan.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

but he has one of the longest power up sequences in the anime and manga

Not true. Cell’s power up was time in standard time for anime. It doesn’t even come near to Freeza going from 3rd to 4th form or 70% to 100%. Even Super Vegeta was longer in anime and manga, with Piccolo being surprised that Vegeta’s power is still growing.

You think SSJ2 is 2x but that Gohan had an extra rage boost right? We’re on the same side here.

When does it suggests Gohan regressed to a much weaker form? The story portrays Gohan as a monstrous power still.

Regardless of multipliers, Gohan saying he can’t even use half his power is already Toriyama portraying him as pathetic. Nobody thinks he stands any chance against Cell and it’s a miracle he didn’t die instantly to Cell’s Kamehameha.

 

[Mexican Warrior]

They are including a rage boost for Gohan.

What do you mean?

Not true. Cell’s power up was time in standard time for anime. It doesn’t even come near to Freeza going from 3rd to 4th form or 70% to 100%. Even Super Vegeta was longer in anime and manga, with Piccolo being surprised that Vegeta’s power is still growing.

You think SSJ2 is 2x but that Gohan had an extra rage boost right? We’re on the same side here.



Regardless of multipliers, Gohan saying he can’t even use half his power is already Toriyama portraying him as pathetic. Nobody thinks he stands any chance against Cell and it’s a miracle he didn’t die instantly to Cell’s Kamehameha.

It wasn't the longest power up sequence but it was still a very long one compared to the standard one.

I know, but I was answering the title's question as to why SSJ2 couldn't be x2 for Gohan. Also, you have a tremendously small rage boost for Gohan that doesn't work.

 

[OfficerPorch]

Concerning the SSJ2 Kid Gohan/half power stuff.
Dagon had a simple way of explaining it using car and gas tank analogy.

You can still use full speed of what your car is capable of even with half oil in your gas tank.