Why CGs Vegeta is not far from 50% Goku

[withheldforprivacy]

1. Goku said he ''probably'' can't beat Cell. Everyone believes 50% is Goku's max.
2. Vegeta was confident he could beat Expected Cell, but he never said it'll be a cakewalk. Also, if he had
surpassed by far what he expected to be Goku's full power, he'd have said something...
3. Piccolo was below 50% Goku (if he'd surpassed that level, he'd have said something), yet, against Cell Jrs,
he did not seem that far from Getes/Trunks. That means Getes/Trunks couldn't be that far from 50% Goku.
All in all...
50% Goku- 50
Expected Cell- 55
Vegeta/Trunks- 55
Piccolo- 45

 

[SSJ2]

Why would they think 50% was his max? Would be kind of dumb of Goku to lay all his cards on the table before the fight.

 

[Tapion]

@Smoker Well, it's not like he can't trust on them

 

[Papasmurf]

I put Vegeta at 75% of Goku in the CG. While him saying the difference between them hasn't changed in the Boo arc isn't probably a precise estimate, I still think the gap was fairly similar to the CG, and Majin seems to be at least a 1.3x boost or so imo.

I also don't think Vegeta presumed that to be his FP lol, or he'd have been wondering "That wasn't his full power back then?!" or some shit when Goku goes all-out against Cell.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

I also don't think Vegeta presumed that to be his FP lol, or he'd have been wondering "That wasn't his full power back then?!" or some shit when Goku goes all-out against Cell.

Vegeta and everybody else were WTFed by Goku's full power at Cell Games.

 

[Papasmurf]

Yes, but they weren't surprised that the 50% wasn't his FP when he started (and finished) powering up. Trunks and Krillin also go on about how Goku really is beyond everyone after all, etc. even if the power exceeded their expectations.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I'd say Vegeta is at-least quite comfortably ahead of 50% Goku. He seemed confident and thought he for sure was going to be the one to finish-off Cell.

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah, Goku (expected) could be like 60% of his actual power, Cell could be around 65-68% and Vegeta could be 75%. Works well enough.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Goku also said Vegeta seemed very confident in his new power.

But I'd say Goku's gap on Vegeta is bigger than Vegeta's gap on 50% Goku.

 

[Papasmurf]

I don't know about that. All Goku has to be is in a different league compared to Vegeta, while Vegeta has to be comfortably ahead of an opponent Goku (expected) thinks he can't beat. Although I don't do precise calculations anymore since PLs are dumb and all that.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I don't know about that. All Goku has to be is in a different league compared to Vegeta, while Vegeta has to be comfortably ahead of an opponent Goku (expected) thinks he can't beat. Although I don't do precise calculations anymore since PLs are dumb and all that.

Does Vegeta know Goku thinks he can't beat Cell? I can't remember. Either-way I think Vegeta could also be 25% ahead of 50% Goku and it'd all work well. I thought Vegeta being blown-away by Goku's power showed a greater gap there.

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah Goku told everyone straight after meeting PC that he thinks he can't win.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Yeah Goku told everyone straight after meeting PC that he thinks he can't win.

Well in that case I guess you can think of Vegeta as having powered-up more, but there's also that he doesn't know by how much. He just knows Goku can't win. It'd be reasonable to assume that Goku can't do anything to him (like 1.25x gap or whatever), but it could also be as close as the fight we actually saw since at that point Goku was thought to be the bar-none strongest, so if he can't do it, no-one can.

 

[ahill1]

I also think Vegeta is considerably ahead of 50% Goku, but not quite at 75% yet, more like 66% or so.

1. Goku said he ''probably'' can't beat Cell. Everyone believes 50% is Goku's max.

I don't know if by the "probably" Goku meant Cell was close to him.


Chapter: 390 (DBZ 196), P13.5-6, P14.1-3
Context: After Goku checks out perfect Cell's power
Goku: “…Frankly, I didn’t think he would get so incredible…I don’t have any idea just how strong he could get if he felt like it…I won’t know unless I try, but I think I probably can’t win the way I am now.”


I see it more as "I don't have a set idea, but if I had to guess, I'd probably lose.", rather than "Cell is only a little bit stronger than me, so I'm probably going to lose"

2. Vegeta was confident he could beat Expected Cell, but he never said it'll be a cakewalk. Also, if he had
surpassed by far what he expected to be Goku's full power, he'd have said something...

Vegeta is probably aware that Goku's 50% wasn't his 100%, as he said "show me what you can do, Kakarrot", before the fight even started.

3. Piccolo was below 50% Goku (if he'd surpassed that level, he'd have said something), yet, against Cell Jrs,
he did not seem that far from Getes/Trunks. That means Getes/Trunks couldn't be that far from 50% Goku.
All in all...

It depends how do you see Trunks' surprise. Trunks' shock was most likely due to Piccolo catching on or surpassing 50% FPSSJ Goku, and in that moment Trunks realized 50% Goku =/= 100% Goku.

 

[ahill1]

Someone knows what did Vegeta say there? Is Viz correct with the "Show me what you can do, Kakarrot!"?

 

[Papasmurf]

I'll have you show me, Kakarrot is basically what he said. Pretty much just asking to see how good he is.

 

[ahill1]

I'll have you show me, Kakarrot is basically what he said. Pretty much just asking to see how good he is.

I see. Is this basically Vegeta implying he thinks what Goku showed to Karin wasn't his full power?

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah, more or less. He definitely wasn't expecting the gap to be 2x, but he should have expected more especially when he overtly knew burst Goku against Yakon wasn't his full power.

 

[ahill1]

Yeah, more or less. He definitely wasn't expecting the gap to be 2x, but he should have expected more especially when he overtly knew burst Goku against Yakon wasn't his full power.

But the "I will have you show me, Kakarotto" could also mean Vegeta wants to see Goku's way to beat Cell, no?

 

[Papasmurf]

He told Goku to go ahead since he'll be the one to get the job done, so I think he knew pretty well that Goku has no chance of winning, just not the fact that both Cell and Galu were stronger than him