Why I don't take DB seriously anymore...

[xmysticgohanx]

GT is the most boring anime I have ever watched

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

That's because you didn't watch more anime which are 1000x worse than GT.

 

[xmysticgohanx]

Top tier series I have watched: One Piece anime before it had terrible animation and pacing, HxH 2011, MHA, OPM, DBS, DBKai, Yugioh GX, AoT

Mid tier series I have watched: Jojo, Naruto, Fairy Tail, Part 1 Dragon Ball, Yugioh DM

Low tier: DBGT

Might have missed some. Watching Pokemon XY&Z right now, it's pretty good

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I think i watch only 3 animes lol.

 

[VampireWicked]

ANYWAY..... The straw that broke the camel's back for me is just how ridiculous Toriyama can be. Saying one thing, doing another. Lazy ideas as of lately with Super. But what really makes debating DB pointless for me is what he said about Roshi in that interview from a little while back.

Roshi was in the one hundreds in DB, scouted to be 139 in Z, yet during FnF he is somehow strong enough to tangle with dudes well above 500 with no training or no explanation just out of the blue? Then had the audacity to say "LOL, Roshi can be that strong, but only when he feels like it! Lolol!!"

Well i agree & disagree at the same time.
I agree it's lost the feeling of wanting to take it seriously but i disagree with how Roshi & others have gotten much stronger so quickly.

I mean i've been for the DragonBall Universe to up all the characters power levels, i've repeatedly said it on different forums that the only thing holding them back is Toriyama.

Here's me on a different forum.

In Dragon Ball Z characters should've been shown vaporizing mountains while not even physically touching it.
In Super there's Godly characters that can easily destroy universe just because & can go across the universe & back in less than a blink.
"And then you've got the freaking Omni-King! The mightiest of all!"
Yea i'm still so waiting & wanting to see Super, i just think Akira Toriyama needs to up everything.
Go less western cartoon & more japanese manga.

I disagree with how Roshi's strength now is ridiculous or the upped power levels now are ridiculous.
DragonBall Z these are extremely powerful characters & they come across nowhere as intense as this:

The DragonBall Universe should've doing crap like & portrayed as epic as that.
DragonBall Super should be as grand as Gurren Lagann's massive battles but it's all held back because Toriyama wants to keep things simple & scaled back.

I haven't seen Super yet but i've seen ResurrectionF & Roshi holding his own against enemies with 500+ power levels isn't that far fetched to me.
I don't see it as Roshi was holding back against RR Army, Daimao or King Piccolo.
Look at how many years has gone by from Z to ResurrectionF & how much opportunity Roshi had to train, it's not like Z followed every moment of what Roshi did.
So i see it as character's lives don't stop just because they aren't the main focus of a story.
There was nothing in Z that said Roshi never trained at all during DragonBall Z.

Obviously in original DB this isn't the case at all, retcons or interviews won't change that fact for most of us fans at THAT time.... Same way there is no way Freeza could go from weaker than an untrained SSJ to rival god tier in 4 months, or know about Beerus or Buu AT THAT TIME during the Namek arc.

I agree with the Frieza thing but could it be possible that with all of the technology at his disposal maybe he has access to a Room of Spirit and Time ?

I mean if Bulma can pull a fully furnished house out of a vitamin capsule then possibly Frieza has a type of Spirit & Time chamber of his own.

People sometimes argue over plot device/writing VS. In universe explanations, and often times say using plot device/writing logic over in universe is boring and unimaginative. But no matter how you look at it, plot device and writing is everything. Without it, you wouldn't even be able to entertain in universe logic to begin with. Not to mention Toriyama's nonsense over the last few years has been anything BUT imaginative. Lazy and forgetful =/= imaginative, nor should it be used to excuse poor logic/writing from the author himself in favor of in universe logic.

lol You forget how many people read Superman comics & accept that line of logic.

Fact is Roshi was never above the one hundreds in DB/Z, and Beerus and Buu didn't exist during the Z Freeza arc. Plain and simple. They were not even thoughts in Toriyama's head back then. If they were, Toriyama would have conceptualized this present shit in a much better fashion that makes sense and fits. Had it fit, then I would be more willing to accept the in universe logic.

Plus whether he had all that shit in his mind in the past or not is irrelevant, he still coulda made it fit with more sense if he put some REAL thought into it regardless.

I agree, i think someone like Kazuki Nakashima needs to reboot & re-write the DragonBall Universe.

I just dont get it..... No matter my thoughts on debating for other reasons, what Toriyama has pulled as of late makes debating it utterly pointless and a waste of time. Who's to say he won't come out tomorrow and say Mecha Freeza at 100% wasn't actually Vegetto tier? Or that SPC was actually close to SSJ3 strength but "Didn't feel like using that much strength"...

Because certain things he set in stone & if he re-writes those then the chance of losing the audience increases.
In stories you can add new possibilities, increase limits without changing past events or already established outcomes.
From what i've read Toriyama is keeping everything plausible to the characters & the DragonBall Universe.

Toriyama isn't saying "Mecha Freeza at 100% wasn't actually Vegetto tier"
Toriyama is saying Frieza is stronger now then when he was Mecha Frieza because of training. Toriyama just isn't clear on what type of training.

Before you know it, "SSJ all the colors of the rainbow" Vegetto KK x 20 will still be below Beerus.

I also agree there are inconsistencies & calculations that don't add up.

 

[ahill1]

Top Tiers: HunterxHunter 1999, Dragon Ball, One Piece (anime/pre time skip)
Mid tiers: Shingeki no Kyojin, Fullmetal Alchemist

 

[Papasmurf]

How do you rate 2011? Inferior in all the arcs except maybe Greed Island? (Chimera Ant doesn't count since that wasn't in 1999 obv)

 

[ahill1]

How do you rate 2011? Inferior in all the arcs except maybe Greed Island? (Chimera Ant doesn't count since that wasn't in 1999 obv)

Pretty much this. I prefer the 1999 version by far. The soundtrack, the characters designer, etc. are much more touching to me. Just compare Kuroro 1999 vs 2011 lol.

Did you watch both versions?

 

[Papasmurf]

I don't remember much from Hunter Exams or Heaven's Arena (except Fidel Castro getting skipped lol), but I watched all episodes of the Yorkshin arc. Definitely better than the 2011 version imo. Only watched up to Gon meeting Bisky in GI in both.

 

[ahill1]

I don't remember much from Hunter Exams or Heaven's Arena (except Fidel Castro getting skipped lol), but I watched all episodes of the Yorkshin arc. Definitely better than the 2011 version imo. Only watched up to Gon meeting Bisky in GI in both.

Yeah Yaorkshin's atmosphere was way, way better in the 1999 version. They pretty much ruined it in the 2011. Also look at Killua's designer in both versions:

http://www.google.com.br/search?q=K...ved=0ahUKEwiW8YDXmNnOAhUMhpAKHQJOBBwQ_AUICSgB

http://www.google.com.br/search?scl...et-gws..1.8.775...0i67k1j0i5i30k1.ROBN9Kgqi1I

Who think 1999 designer better must have their head examinated (I kid).

 

[Papasmurf]

The voice acting for 2011 usually ain't as good as 1999 too. Never liked 2011 Kurapika at all with his 99.9% female sounding voice, whereas he believably sounded like a young teen boy despite often being in "female" slapstick situations in 1999.

 

[ahill1]

Agreed. I don't get one thing: did you watch the 1999 version until Gon meeting Mito-san?

 

[Papasmurf]

You mean meeting Mito after Heaven's Arena? I saw that, but I don't remember much from the early arcs since they're very subpar compared to Yorkshin and onwards imo.

 

[ahill1]

Yeah that moment. Wait, that was before Yorkshin, no?

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah that was just before Gon and Killua learned about the Greed Island game, but it happens right after Heavens arena which I didn't like that much

 

[ahill1]

Yeah that was just before Gon and Killua learned about the Greed Island game, but it happens right after Heavens arena which I didn't like that much

Oh I see haha. You said you watched it until Gon and Killua met Bisky and for some reason I readed it until they met Mito haha. So you didn't see Chimera's arc?

 

[Papasmurf]

I saw most of Chimera Ant (skipped a few bits at the beginning of their invasion of Meruem's castle). But I found greed island kind of boring and skipped it.

 

[Jerk Store]

@VampireWicked

Naw, NAW!!!!! Mecha Freeza full power was STRONGER than SSJ3 Vegetto!

 

[VampireWicked]

@VampireWicked

Naw, NAW!!!!! Mecha Freeza full power was STRONGER than SSJ3 Vegetto!

lol No way, besides Mecha Frieza wasn't at 100% anyway, he was only running on 3 D-batteries instead of 4.

Anyway part of the idea of the DragonBall Universe is that power levels aren't permanently set at one level.
So it makes sense for Roshi's power level to increase & just assume he was training while the others were busy with whatever.

 

[Jerk Store]

Training his dick on some hoes, yeah!