Why was Seven-Three (With Moro's powers) so weak?

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Back when the Z Fighters were fighting the Galactic Brigade, Seven-Three resorted to his copy of Moro's abilities and still got his ass kicked by 17. Back then I assumed 7-3 was just using old data from Namek Moro. Yet when Moro eats 7-3 he regains all of his powers? Is it because they "merged" (Moro's absorptions didn't change him before besides making him younger) or is this some plothole?

By the way, Moro says 7-3 has been "added" to his strength. Should we take this literally?

 

[Pyro]

Seven-Three was using Prime Moro's Namek power, which paled in comparison to the power he had when he came to Earth, as Moro himself admitted. Hell, a "smidgen" of his post-Namek power given to Saganbo was enough to heavily outclass all the Z gang and even come close to an Angel-trained PSSB Goku, and this same Goku wasn't even worth a casual Moro's time when beforehand, PSSB Goku was stronger in raw power than Prime Moro on Namek.

Moro (post-Namek) >>>>>> PSSB Goku (post-Merus training) > Saganbo (at limits) > Saganbo (further powered up) > Saganbo (powered up) >>> Gohan (post-training) >>> PSSB Goku (Namek) >= PSSB Goku (ToP) > Moro (Namek) = Seven-Three (using Moro's power)

 

[SIAD]

Seven-Three was using Prime Moro's Namek power, which paled in comparison to the power he had when he came to Earth, as Moro himself admitted. Hell, a "smidgen" of his post-Namek power given to Saganbo was enough to heavily outclass all the Z gang and even come close to an Angel-trained PSSB Goku, and this same Goku wasn't even worth a casual Moro's time when beforehand, PSSB Goku was stronger in raw power than Prime Moro on Namek.

Moro (post-Namek) >>>>>> PSSB Goku (post-Merus training) > Saganbo (at limits) > Saganbo (further powered up) > Saganbo (powered up) >>> Gohan (post-training) >>> PSSB Goku (Namek) >= PSSB Goku (ToP) > Moro (Namek) = Seven-Three (using Moro's power)

I was going to comment the same, since yesterday I read that chapter and thought about the same thing. Just that I thought that OG73I had the power of Moro at the time that OG73I went to Earth? Or was it just at the time that Moro was on Namek?

 

[Pyro]

I was going to comment the same, since yesterday I read that chapter and thought about the same thing. Just that I thought that OG73I had the power of Moro at the time that OG73I went to Earth? Or was it just at the time that Moro was on Namek?

Only on Namek. If Seven-Three had Earth Moro's power he would have been equal to UI Sign Goku, which was not the case as he got beat by Android 17 who couldn't faze initial Saganbo, who PSSB Goku crapped on.

 

[SIAD]

I very much agree with you. I have that Moro (By absorbing Namek) almost on the level of Goku / Vegeta PSSJB. But as at the time when OG73I (Moro) vs Android # 17 faced, the first one was very hurt and that is why he was easily defeated by Android # 17.

Moro surely installed that backup to OG73I, when Moro grabbed it on Earth.

I also believe that Moro (OG73I) is stronger than the sum of powers between Moro + OG73I, since the second is insignificant compared to the first.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

How did 73 copy Moro's powers (that was beyond UI Sign Goku/Evolved Blue Vegeta) while also being as strong as Moro was on Namek? Wouldn't that mean he was running off of an older version of Moro while somehow keeping a newer version of Moro backed up somewhere?

We see that 73 had to copy Piccolo again months later, so I'm sure 73 copied Moro right before it was time for the next battle. The version on Namek would've been long gone by that point.

Based on the above, I don't think 73 was actively using Moro's Battle Power. He talked about 73 copying both his magic and his "Combat Abilities" (Battle Power) as if neither goes hand-in-hand during the process. It seems like Moro was able to choose what abilities he wanted to give to 73.

So to me, it seems like #17 was stomping normal 73 w/Moro's magic.

 

[Pyro]

Couldn't it be that Moro was explaining because he didn't think the Z gang realized Seven-Three was copying everything?

 

[Evil Vegeta]

The "I didn't only have him copy my magic" could mean that. I get the impression Moro had more control over what 7-3 was copying. That's how it always came off to me.

We saw Moro copy Vegeta and all he did was retain his abilities. Granted, he was able to get rid of the time limit, so maybe he has better control over the copy ability than 7-3 ever did.

Looking at it again, 7-3 loses Piccolo's install, but still had the hedgehog alien and Moro's slot available. So it's not unreasonable to believe he still had access to the slot months later. The copied powers only seem to be on a time limit when they're actively being used.

I dunno. It seems odd imagining 7-3 grabbing Moro's neck again, but having to still use the outdated version of Moro's power. Unless Moro barred him from using it. Moro didn't sound too comfortable with the idea of 7-3 using his abilities outside of a last resort.

 

[SIAD]

OG73I had to copy Piccolo's powers again, as he had used Piccolo's 30 minutes the first time.

I'm seriously thinking that surely OG73I (Moro) should be much stronger than Moro (Namek) after absorbing Gohan's Kamehameha. On the other hand, OG73I got hurt after fighting Gohan and Piccolo, therefore Androids # 17 and # 18 should be more or less at Jiren (Initial) level.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Didn't Moro say guys like Vegeta would be an ant to him at the height of his power?

By the time he finished devouring Namek, he was back to his prime, and he had all of his magic power back.

I know Vegeta said Moro was no match for himself or Goku alone, but that was before he was fully restored.

I don't think either Android is standing up to Vegeta Blue. Gohan before the training was stated to be the strongest on the planet when Goku and Vegeta weren't around. Gohan was shown to be on par with Kefla...which was still not quite on Goku's level.

I don't really see #17 making that type of jump in power in-between that time.

 

[Pyro]

I think Kefla was stronger than Blue Goku in the tournament. :/

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Logically speaking, Kefla and Gohan should be above Goku during the ToP. Hit was shown to be on par with Goku, if not stronger. The idea of both Kale (I know she started weakening, but still) and Kefla being below Goku is pretty weird.

I played around with the possibility of ToP Gohan>=Perfected Blue Goku. Krillin said Gohan could potentially be stronger than Goku if he took training seriously. Some people don't take it seriously because it's Krillin, but then you have Piccolo.

Piccolo views Gohan as the 3rd strongest behind Goku and Vegeta.

Piccolo compared Post-Merus training Super Saiyan Blue Goku to his ToP Blue level. Stating he had gotten way more powerful since then.

So it seems like Piccolo believes Gohan is below ToP Goku.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

@Evil Vegeta what if Goku and Vegeta (Start of Moro Saga) > Gohan > Goku and Vegeta (ToP)? The quick recap of the Broly movie does say Goku and Vegeta came out of it “stronger than ever”.

I just don’t see how we could disregard Vados’ comments about Kale and Kefla. Kale even has the feat of smacking around 4 different SSJB levels (Golden Freeza, Goku, Vegeta and Toppo).

17 also saved Freeza’s ass from Jiren and is said to be almost as strong as Goku and Vegeta. Gohan being stronger than 17 would definitely place him above Blue tier.

---

About Seven-Three, I’m thinking he was constantly updated on Moro’s power, but was only allowed to use his magic on the Z Fighters. That definitely explains why they were so shocked to see 7-3 had also copied Moro’s power level.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

I'd prefer it that way, but Krillin's statement seems way too straightforward.

Even though Krillin is fodder in the grand scheme of things, wouldn't he be able to tell who's the stronger of the two based on observing their movement? Krillin and the others only seemed to lose track of UI Goku and Jiren towards the end of the fight.

Vados statement always seemed more like a potential assessment of the situation. Looking at the actual Fusion, you had a Kale that weakened to the point where she couldn't handle guys that Super Saiyan Goku was able to punk alone. Then you have a weakened Super Saiyan Caulifla that was noticeably weaker than Base Kale.

So in the end, the Fusion wasn't really all that special. Maybe Kefla would've been more impressive if she had a senzu after the merge.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

And even if he can’t sense SSJB Goku, nothing suggests he couldn’t sense Hit, Toppo or Golden Freeza.

Vegetto did need a senzu to fight Zamasu in the manga, so Potara doesn’t heal injuries. Kahseral said Kefla was way better than the girls alone though, and he saw Kale’s peak power. Unless “moves” was about her skill? It was mentioned earlier that the Pride Troopers were winning because Kale’s movements were easy to predict, after all.

Ch. 38, pg. 41.3
Vados: “It seems this happy accident led to the ultimate warrior--with Kale’s sheer power and Caulifla’s sense for battle in one body, they can combine their respective strengths. In fact, Kefla may be unmatched on this battlefield.”

“Ultimate warrior” could be about the balance between power and skill, but saying she may be unmatched is pretty straightforward. Jiren took on two SSJB level folks, so someone who’s Goku’s level at best is definitely not the strongest. Unless Vados overestimated Kefla, but that’s unlikely.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

I think Vados would've taken Kefla's Full-Power into consideration when she made that statement. When looking at it from that standpoint, the statement itself is fine. Mainly because we know Kefla is the result of a Kale that had weakened to the point where she fell unconscious--and a Caulifla that took a ton of damage from Golden Freeza.

Despite becoming stronger during the tournament, it still took Gohan pushing his limits just to match Kefla at this level.

I put it under the same umbrella as Goku's statement on #17 (“That #17 ... he hadn’t been doin’ anything special at all, but his strength wasn’t so far off from mine ... I wonder why...”) at this point. The story gave plenty of opportunities for Gohan>Goku to be stated and yet only the opposite was stated.

This part of Super is all over the place.