Yamcha (Android saga) vs Vegeta (Saiyan saga)

[Fantastische Hure]

Done before but...

Who wins?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I'd say Yamcha oneshots. Considering the gains Piccolo made in 6 days, I'd find it highly improbable someone who stayed there 136 days and trained intensely for 3 years after that wouldn't at least surpass the 18k threshold. There is Gero saying he didn't expect Goku to make major gains after the Saiyan Arc, but considering that was made after Gero had felt a full power punch from Base Goku first hand, I think it's safe to say Gero has no idea what he's talking about.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Maybe Yamcha's limit is below Saiyan saga Vegeta though. If we go by the Yamcha manga, the writer seems to imply Yamcha's genkai is reached at above the 10k mark.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

That seems highly doubtful. Kuririn's potential was shown to at least make him relevant help against someone stronger than 530k and official sources cite the bare minimum for his self at the end of the Freeza Arc being at least 75k. Yamcha has been shown to be just as talented as Kuririn, having reached his level by the time of the 22nd TB despite starting off far weaker prior to Roshi's training and both seemed to be lumped into the same tier during both the 23rd TB and Saiyan Arc.

 

[GSM123]

I doubt he can even beat Nappa, let alone Vegeta. Failing to learn the Kaio-Ken shows he couldn’t become as strong as Goku got.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Kaio-Ken argument isn't that good tbh. Kaio-Ken takes talent and skill not just raw power but I agree with Yamcha maybe not even being that high.

 

[GSM123]

[mention]Fantastische Hure[/mention] Daizenshuu 7 states power is a factor as well.

Even taking that out of the picture, Yamcha isn’t reaching Saiyan Saga Vegeta levels. If he lacks the talent and skill to master a technique that buffs his power up to +10k, then it hardly makes sense for him to reach that power at all. His body simply isn’t built to support so much power.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

@Fantastische Hure Daizenshuu 7 states power is a factor as well.

Even taking that out of the picture, Yamcha isn’t reaching Saiyan Saga Vegeta levels. If he lacks the talent and skill to master a technique that buffs his power up to +10k, then it hardly makes sense for him to reach that power at all. His body simply isn’t built to support so much power.

I didn't say Yamcha is higher than Vegeta in-fact I agreed with you. You can read again. I doubted Yamcha or Tenshinhan being this high years ago.

So you think Nappa could pull-off a Kaio-Ken? Kaio-Ken also takes Ki mastery.

 

[GSM123]

I didn't say Yamcha is higher than Vegeta in-fact I agreed with you. You can read again. I doubted Yamcha or Tenshinhan being this high years ago.

So you think Nappa could pull-off a Kaio-Ken? Kaio-Ken also takes Ki mastery.

Yeah, I know that we agree on this one. I was just expanding more on why I think this.

If he trained with Kaio, then he probably could.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I don't think Nappa has the talent, especially if a martial-arts master like Kaio can't do it. Granted Nappa is much higher.

 

[Ultimate Cell]

Yamcha one shots. If he trained for 3 years and didnt make any good gainz he would not showed up for the androids. Plus theirs also that Statement of Gero thinking absorbing Piccolo plus humans ki would give him the edge against Vegeta.

 

[GSM123]

I don't think Nappa has the talent, especially if a martial-arts master like Kaio can't do it. Granted Nappa is much higher.

He is a Saiyan just like Goku is. Theorically he could learn it, but his simple minded, hot blooded posture makes me doubt whether he can actually understand and have the patience to learn the technique.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

As Hure said, the argument for Yamcha being below 8k due to not knowing Kaioken isn't that strong. I think we can all agree Piccolo was at bare minimum on Nail's level after Kaio's training, yet you don't see him using Kaioken. Yes, he was only on Kaio's planet for 6 days, but if he can make those kind of gains whilst Kaio is accepting to offer him the full training course, there's no reason for him to have not gained Kaioken.
Even taking into account Yamcha not having as much talent as Piccolo, I highly doubt he'd cap off so low from intense training when Kuririn's potential at bare minimum had him far surpassing Reacoom from his time on Namek.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

To be fair maybe Yamcha didn't reach all of his potential. He was doubting the android's existence as-well after-all.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Manga wise, nothing proves that Krillin's power against Ginyu (25k) isn't humans' limit.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Kuririn could be >> Monster Zarbon since Vegeta said Kuririn can help unlike Zarbon. Kuririn's power was also said to still be rising after the fact.

 

[GSM123]

Kuririn could be >> Monster Zarbon since Vegeta said Kuririn can help unlike Zarbon. Kuririn's power was also said to still be rising after the fact.

To be fair, Vegeta was nowhere near as strong as he is already. Monster Zarbon and 30k Vegeta can’t do anything to Freeza.

I think he surpassed Monster Zarbon, but not by a long shot. He’s a bit over 30k tops.

As Hure said, the argument for Yamcha being below 8k due to not knowing Kaioken isn't that strong. I think we can all agree Piccolo was at bare minimum on Nail's level after Kaio's training, yet you don't see him using Kaioken. Yes, he was only on Kaio's planet for 6 days, but if he can make those kind of gains whilst Kaio is accepting to offer him the full training course, there's no reason for him to have not gained Kaioken.
Even taking into account Yamcha not having as much talent as Piccolo, I highly doubt he'd cap off so low from intense training when Kuririn's potential at bare minimum had him far surpassing Reacoom from his time on Namek.

I’m not sure if we can agree on that. Piccolo probably surpassed Initial Nappa given his confidence, but that’s it. All Nail does is say he has incredible power, what’s rather vague. Piccolo also said Kaio never told him anything about the Genki Dama, implying he hadn’t got to the part where they learn the techniques yet.

Guru actually said Kuririn had amazing potential for an earthling, though it’s possible so did Yamcha given how he rivaled Kuririn in Part I. Still, there’s no evidence he ever reached Recoome’s level, and most of the evidence we have would say the opposite:

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I still see it as sort-of a direct comparison (even-though it probably wasn't meant to be, it goes together perfectly).

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Still, there’s no evidence he ever reached Recoome’s level

Except for the V-Jump placing him at 75k after the Ginyu fight and the fact he went from around the 10k ballpark to overpowering someone at 23k shows he was still getting stronger by enough to make this consistent. I see there being no way Vegeta would consider him of any worthwhile support against Freeza if Kuririn was still below someone Base Goku could oneshot prior.

 

[GSM123]

[mention]Captain Cadaver[/mention] V-Jump also place Gohan and Vegeta at 200 and 250k, respectively. I wouldn’t take it’s word for granted like that.

Indeed, but how much stronger he’s gotten? He certainly didn’t see himself as reaching Recoome’s level beforehand, and being a good distraction doesn’t exactly require Ginyu levels of power.