Z Sword Gohan

[SSJ2]

How strong do you think Z Sword Gohan was? There are two common points of view on this, either Gohan is approaching Boo’s level, or he hardly improved at all.

I believe the prior.



Boss Kaioshin seemed to put a lot of stock in Gohan being able to wield the sword well, so I’m inclined to believe the improvement that we saw from Gohan was real.

 

[ahill1]

Yes, I agree. Though I think Goku may have been factoring in Gohan releasing all of his dormant power, his true power as emphasized by him earlier when Gohan was about to face Dabra before Boo awakening, in the equation when assessing whether he could defeat Boo.

 

[SIAD]

I think Gohan SSJ2 (Post Espada Z) rivals Fat Boo.

I would love to read the opinions of:

@GreatSaiyaman123
@Papasmurf
@Power Level Guy
@Animelover5487
@Fantastische Hure
@MikaelHarding
@Yoshi

 

[Hector]

1.2x stronger than SSJ2 Goku/Vegeta.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Do you think Gohan was approaching Boo as a mere SSJ, or that Goku and Shin expected Gohan to tap into SSJ2 somehow? I agree with ahill that Goku was including rage, which muddies things.

Gohan is definitely above Goku in equal forms based on swordsmanship, but Goku’s wondering is really weak evidence. As a non-enraged SSJ2, I’d place Gohan somewhere between Good Boo and Evil Boo.

 

[SIAD]

I have: Fat Boo > Gohan SSJ2 (Post Espada Z).

 

[ahill1]

Once fat Boo was formed, Gohan stated he wasn't so strong to the point there wasn't anything he could do. Then Shin asked if he really meant it, and he replied with "... If I'm able to put out my true powers...". So I think hypothetical enraged Gohan (pre Z sword) >~ initial fat Boo... Who was himself below SSJ2 Goku and Vegeta to the point Vegeta laughed at his power.

Gohan may have gotten stronger enough to the point his hypothetical enraged powers, is assuming a consistent power up accompanying his base power, is now rivaling fat Boo. If he gets, like, a 1.5x boost on top of his SSJ2 from it (assuming he'd get to his CGs level beforehand, and that there's a 1.5x gap or so between them), then it's possible a non-enraged SSJ2 Gohan was on Grey Boo's level, more or less, imo.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I think Gohan meant going SSJ2 he’d stand a chance with Initial Fattie. No way Vegeta would laugh at enraged Gohan.

Also, there isn’t a rage multiplier. Don’t even bother.

 

[Dagon]

Why not an approach between Gohan nearing Buu's level or hardly changing?

DBZ Kakarot has SSJ Z-Sword Trunks on Cell Games SSJ2 Gohan's level. With SSJ2 signing that, it makes Z-Sword SSJ2 Trunks almost double the power of SSJ2 Goku. This would put Trunks still a good margin below Fat Buu. By extension Gohan as well if he achieved the same level which I think is reasonable.

There's nothing that outright contradicts this portrayal from DBZ Kakarot so I think it's fair to use it for lack of anything more concrete from the series.

 

[ScottyFamalam]

SS2 Trunks post Z Sword couldn't even damage Dabra without Kaioshin paralyzing him, so taking DBS into account, he wasn't approaching Boo's level

Going only by the OG manga, I believe Gohan got a lot stronger, but he wasn't near Boo. Goku's "I wonder..." comment might suggest he was, but it feels too throwaway.

 

[Power Level Guy]

SS2 Trunks post Z Sword couldn't even damage Dabra without Kaioshin paralyzing him, so taking DBS into account, he wasn't approaching Boo's level

Going only by the OG manga, I believe Gohan got a lot stronger, but he wasn't near Boo. Goku's "I wonder..." comment might suggest he was, but it feels too throwaway.

Nice... I haven't seen this argued before, but yes, DBS proves that SSJ2 Z Sword isn't all that great.

 

[SSJ2]

I'm not seeing the argument here. Gohan > Trunks.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Doesn't DBS also "prove" Dabra is SSJ2 tier?

 

[ahill1]

I'm not seeing the argument here. Gohan > Trunks.

I think they mean that Trunks mastered the Z sword in a similar way Gohan did.

 

[SSJ2]

All the more reason why Super is not compatible with the original manga. A far weaker SSJ Gohan was already around on par with Dabura. Super shows Trunks wielding the sword similarly to post Z Sword Gohan and yet he needs SSJ2 + Kaioshin's help to beat Dabura.

So you're left with two options here.

1) Super and Z are not the same continuity.

2) Future Dabura is far stronger than present Dabura, therefore the comparison is meaningless.

 

[ScottyFamalam]

I'm not seeing the argument here. Gohan > Trunks.

Trunks had equal mastery of the Z Sword before he turned SS2, so he can't be any weaker.

This could just be Toyotaro nonsense, but even looking at the original manga, Gohan displayed nothing to suggest he got such a huge power-up from swinging the sword around. The gap between him and Fat Boo was gigantic when they fought before. Swinging a heavy sword around shouldn't be any better than training in the gravity room, or regular weight training; would Vegeta come close to surpassing Boo if he locked himself in the gravity room for a few days? Nah fam

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Super is undoubtedly in the same continuity, but the powerscaling is non existent so I can see Future Dabra > Present Dabra.

 

[Yoshi]

Super is in the same continuity but an alternate branch in the timeline.

Dragon Ball -> Super

Dragon Ball -> End Of Z

 

[Dagon]

SS2 Trunks post Z Sword couldn't even damage Dabra without Kaioshin paralyzing him, so taking DBS into account, he wasn't approaching Boo's level

Going only by the OG manga, I believe Gohan got a lot stronger, but he wasn't near Boo. Goku's "I wonder..." comment might suggest he was, but it feels too throwaway.

That's Future Dabura. We should not assume he must be the same as main Dabura. DBZ Kakarot has Gohan as SSJ1 in the fight with Dabura, therefore Future Dabura pretty much must be stronger than main Dabura.

2) Future Dabura is far stronger than present Dabura, therefore the comparison is meaningless.

In the dialogue before the battle, Future Trunks says Future Dabura is much stronger than Perfect Cell. Meanwhile main Dabura is said to be as strong as Perfect Cell.

 

[Miss Scarlet]

To make sense of goku wondering gohan's capabilities of defeating buu, it has to be something like that:

ssj2 goku = 25
ssj2 gohan post z sword = 72
fat buu = 80
ssj3 goku = 100

I can understand if some may have him weaker as the only definitive placements for him are < to buu and > to goku on even forms