Toyo thinks Gohan was SSJ2

[Power Level Guy]

SSJ Z Sword Gohan = SSJ2 Teen Gohan

I'm pretty convinced that Toyo thinks Gohan was a SSJ2, he also thinks Z Sword matches his previous strength.

But his fights are so different than AT's, AT made his fights really quick. Looking over Vegeta vs 18, the fight is like 10-12 panels and that's it lol. And we rave about these fights lol. But AT made it very clear how he viewed their differences.

With Toyo, this guy has no idea how to differentiate a rivaling gap from a huge one, it's ridiculous.

Dabura vs SSJ/SSJ2 Trunks proves how little Toyo knows about this style. Dabura seems equal with both, which is absurd.

He doesn't understand that dudes should be getting wrecked way more easily than he lets on. He makes every fight competitive.

 

[SSJ2]

It's why Super loses credibility in arguments concerning the original manga. The styles are so blatantly different that it's nearly impossible to connect them as the same product.

 

[Power Level Guy]

It's why Super loses credibility in arguments concerning the original manga. The styles are so blatantly different that it's nearly impossible to connect them as the same product.

Yep.

 

[GSM123]

Toriyama was right there with him giving the OK to it. For better or for worse, that’s how modern AT would’ve done it.

Personally I like this fighting style better. The way AT did it made us think just standing in front of a stronger guy without being erased was a feat by itself.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Toriyama was right there with him giving the OK to it. For better or for worse, that’s how modern AT would’ve done it.

Personally I like this fighting style better. The way AT did it made us think just standing in front of a stronger guy without being erased was a feat by itself.

AT has no idea what he was previously thinking. I wouldn’t bank on anything from him lol.

 

[SSJ2]

AT probably didn't care at all about that sort of thing at that age. He saw Toyo writing a story that would appeal to young kids and never looked more deeply into it than that.

 

[Power Level Guy]

AT probably didn't care at all about that sort of thing at that age. He saw Toyo writing a story that would appeal to young kids and never looked more deeply into it than that.

Yeah man. Still though, I do like to pick up some things from Super and apply it to Z. That's essentially what I do. Like if there's something useful there, I try to use it.

Boys = Cell Jrs was a good one.

Grade 3 > SSJ2 was good too.

SSJ Z-Sword = SSJ2 Gohan is good as well.

These are all solid contributions to the original material I feel.

Now Daima has added Base Goku > Shin as well, which was nice. Couple gems out there.

Ah can't forget about Base RoF Gohan > RoF Piccolo, that one was huge!

Pretty much everything has confirmed previously held notions. It's always nice when that works out.

We seem to agree on damn near everything lately. That's awesome. What's something we disagree on that you want to chat about or what's an issue that's been on your mind lately with this stuff?

 

[SSJ2]

I definitely disagree with your scaling of Gotenks and the implications that has on the Boo arc. But that isn't much of a debate.

Part 1 is what I find most interesting right now. Need to continue my list.

 

[Power Level Guy]

I definitely disagree with your scaling of Gotenks and the implications that has on the Boo arc. But that isn't much of a debate.

Oh that's interesting. What is your stance?

Part 1 is what I find most interesting right now. Need to continue my list.

Yeah, we can definitely keep talking about that. I'll look at that and give some input now. Part 1 is great.

Are you on board with Great Ape Fist = 10x boost or no? Because that has ruined everything for me. Lol. I have to rethink everything to accommodate that new logic.

 

[SSJ2]

Oh that's interesting. What is your stance?

Pretty much exactly the scaling ahill had minus the Vegetto > Gokhan stuff.

Yeah, we can definitely keep talking about that. I'll look at that and give some input now. Part 1 is great.

Are you on board with Great Ape Fist = 10x boost or no? Because that has ruined everything for me. Lol. I have to rethink everything to accommodate that new logic.

Yeah I am. With how simple Toriyama is, drawing Oozaru = Oozaru.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Pretty much exactly the scaling ahill had minus the Vegetto > Gokhan stuff.

Ah ok, yeah I've been there. Reduced multipliers and what not. I'm pretty big on multipliers not being reduced nowadays.

Yeah I am. With how simple Toriyama is, drawing Oozaru = Oozaru.

Awesome, dude. That's literally huge. It unfortunately makes all of the 23rd Budokai participants completely piss weak and really messes up the Raditz Saga scaling for me.

It's probably going to look something crazy like...

Goku/Piccolo 400
Humans 10

Lol

When I release my Saiyan Saga video, people are going to be screaming how foolish I am and how the humans are at least 10x stronger lol

 

[SSJ2]

Yeah I've believed that all along. The difference between Tenshinhan and Krillin/Yamcha was already huge during the 23rd. Kami was dramatically ahead of that level, and he was complete fodder to a heavily weakened Piccolo. The entire group as a whole were still far weaker than weakened Piccolo. The gap is enormous.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Yeah I've believed that all along. The difference between Tenshinhan and Krillin/Yamcha was already huge during the 23rd. Kami was dramatically ahead of that level, and he was complete fodder to a heavily weakened Piccolo. The entire group as a whole were still far weaker than weakened Piccolo. The gap is enormous.

Yeah man. That power-up Piccolo and Shen do against each other does feel otherworldly as well. You always have a good idea for these things.

Ok, let me break down your fusion stuff. I think I have 5-10 questions that can make you change your mind. Are you ready for them?

 

[SSJ2]

Fire away.

 

[SSJ2]

Want to make a new thread?

 

[KyuubiAhri]

Yeah man. Still though, I do like to pick up some things from Super and apply it to Z. That's essentially what I do. Like if there's something useful there, I try to use it.

Boys = Cell Jrs was a good one.

Grade 3 > SSJ2 was good too.

SSJ Z-Sword = SSJ2 Gohan is good as well.

These are all solid contributions to the original material I feel.

Now Daima has added Base Goku > Shin as well, which was nice. Couple gems out there.

Ah can't forget about Base RoF Gohan > RoF Piccolo, that one was huge!

Pretty much everything has confirmed previously held notions. It's always nice when that works out.

We seem to agree on damn near everything lately. That's awesome. What's something we disagree on that you want to chat about or what's an issue that's been on your mind lately with this stuff?

Yea Grade 3 has higher raw power, which is why Trunks went Grade 3 to trick Vegeta

 

[Dagon]

In the OP are you speaking of your opinion or are there quotes from Toyotaro?

 

[Power Level Guy]

In the OP are you speaking of your opinion or are there quotes from Toyotaro?

I'm saying Toyo's work clearly shows what he's thinking. I'm not saying I agree with him, I think he's wrong, but I think that is what he's thinking. Which could sway some people to make a different choice on the matter. It can be used as good evidence for the other side.

 

[Dagon]

I'm saying Toyo's work clearly shows what he's thinking. I'm not saying I agree with him, I think he's wrong, but I think that is what he's thinking. Which could sway some people to make a different choice on the matter. It can be used as good evidence for the other side.

You mean it's your opinion that Toyos work says Gohan was SSJ2... when? Against Dabura?

Looking at the points again, were you equating future Dabura and present Dabura's powers? I think Future Dabura > present Dabura because he was clean while Z-Sword SSJ Trunks was battle damaged, while present Dabura couldn't even significantly damage pre-Z-Sword Gohan. Even with Gohan being SSJ2 in a best case scenario, I think Z-Sword SSJ Trunks/Gohan should be stronger than that, which puts future Dabura higher.

 

[Power Level Guy]

How strong do you put Z Sword fighters and what’s your evidence