Ki blast amp discusssion thread

[Power Level Guy]

I think the context is he didn't know Goku could counter the Galick Gun with a similar move or at least that he didn't think Goku could match its power. He saw Goku do a small Kamehameha against Nappa so it's a bit odd that he'd be surprised in any case, probably Toriyama forgetting again.

Why would Vegeta be surprised he can match his power? He knows Goku is way stronger

 

[GSM123]

That scene is so weird anyway. The way the story was presented to us, Vegeta shouldn’t surpass 18k by any means. Goku is stronger but their beam clash is even? What?

 

[Power Level Guy]

That scene is so weird anyway. The way the story was presented to us, Vegeta shouldn’t surpass 18k by any means. Goku is stronger but their beam clash is even? What?

I think it’s delusional

 

[Power Level Guy]

It’s Vegeta’s trusted, unbeatable move it’s not rational

 

[GSM123]

It’s not about Vegeta’s thoughts, it’s about how we were led to think Goku >> Vegeta only for their clash to be even. Vegeta having more amp that Goku (or any at all) is a plot hole. Goes to show Toriyama always drops the ball at one point or another.

 

[Piramid89]

Because what is Vegeta’s amp against Reecome

I see, you're right

 

[Power Level Guy]

It’s not about Vegeta’s thoughts, it’s about how we were led to think Goku >> Vegeta only for their clash to be even.

Sure, but that's easily explainable. Kaioken doesn't have amp.

Vegeta having more amp that Goku (or any at all) is a plot hole. Goes to show Toriyama always drops the ball at one point or another.

Vegeta doesn't have more amp than Goku though. He has more amp than Goku in the moment, but overall, they have the same amp.



Vegeta 18,000
KKx3 Goku 24,000
KKx3 Kamehameha 24,000 (No Amp)
Galick Gun 24,000
KKx4 Kamehameham 32,000 (No Amp)

That is the rational way to interpret this.

There's literally no issues here.

 

[Power Level Guy]

I see, you're right

Good man.

If you constantly evaluate your interpretations based on the overall consistency of the series, you end up with some super accurate understanding.

Everything has to work together and make sense.

Kaioken Kamehameha having no amp fixes a whole bunch of issues and doesn't really add any.

 

[Dagon]

Why would Vegeta be surprised he can match his power? He knows Goku is way stronger

Like I said, it's odd. It reads as if Toriyama forgot that Vegeta saw Goku use a Kamehameha already.

 

[Papasmurf]

Like I said, it's odd. It reads as if Toriyama forgot that Vegeta saw Goku use a Kamehameha already.

Toriyama later forgot that he already showed Freeza can adjust his power level prior to going 2nd form so that's likely. Although Goku's KHH against Nappa was a quick, uncharged one at point blank range so Vegeta might not have seen what the beam was like.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Like I said, it's odd. It reads as if Toriyama forgot that Vegeta saw Goku use a Kamehameha already.

I'm telling you Dagon. This gotta be the way it's read...

Ok, I got my ass kicked. I'm going to go to my trust Galick Gun. I can't be defeated when I use my ULTIMATE TECHNIQUE!

Hey! He's matching my Galick Gun! This can't be! It's my Ultimate attack and no one matches my ultimate attack! I am the Prince of all Saiyans, how can a lowly Saiyan match me!!! Rage!!!

We are peering in from a hyper specific power scaling perspective not held by characters.

Gohan- He's way too strong, but I'm confident in my SPEED! Oh no!

Piccolo- He won't keep up with my speed, because I trust in my ULTIMATE SPEED! Oh no!


Not everything can be judged from a power scaling perspective. There are irrational thoughts of fighters. Fighters are often irrational, always assuming they are the best.

Vegeta- I am a Super Saiyan! Even though Freeza's ki is stronger, I CANNOT be defeated! I am the WARRIOR OF LEGEND!

This is the best way to make sense of it I believe.

I don't think Vegeta thinks his amp is so strong is can overwhelm a much stronger fighter's amp.

 

[GSM123]

Toriyama later forgot that he already showed Freeza can adjust his power level prior to going 2nd form so that's likely. Although Goku's KHH against Nappa was a quick, uncharged one at point blank range so Vegeta might not have seen what the beam was like.

That’s more bad writing that forgetfulness I think.

 

[Papasmurf]

Vegeta acted like it was the first time he'd seen Freeza change his power level. It's as contradictory as it gets considering Freeza did a power up in front of everyone in 1st form already.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Vegeta acted like it was the first time he'd seen Freeza change his power level. It's as contradictory as it gets considering Freeza did a power up in front of everyone in 1st form already.

Well he might know Freeza’s battle power is 530 and knows that he isn’t using full power right now

 

[Papasmurf]

Well he might know Freeza’s battle power is 530 and knows that he isn’t using full power right now

I'm referring to this scene. Considering Freeza already did power ups in his last form which both the three in front of Freeza and Piccolo noted, this should come as no surprise. The dialogue should've said Vegeta was surprised he still had more power to show.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Yes but Nappa does power ups and Vegeta never thinks he can control his battle power is what I’m saying.

 

[Papasmurf]

Yes but Nappa does power ups and Vegeta never thinks he can control his battle power is what I’m saying.

Freeza's seems to be straight suppression and power ups considering he openly said to Nail that he won't use full power to fight him. Also Piccolo said his Ki grew larger. And I don't think ki sensors can tell the difference between suppression and not using all of one's ki like Nappa the way Scouters can

 

[Power Level Guy]

Why doesn’t Vegeta think Nappa is capable of altering his battle power?

 

[Papasmurf]

Why doesn’t Vegeta think Nappa is capable of altering his battle power?

It's just bad writing. Not even non-suppression users seem to walk around with their full ki all the time, but the difference seems to be that a Scouter can pick up when you're actively using ki control to suppress your strength while doing whatever Nappa and Earth Vegeta did doesn't lower your battle power as measured on a Scouter. Freeza should logically be suppressing his Ki all the time in 1st form anyway given that he doesn't break Scouters nonstop

 

[Kyo]

Nappa and Vegeta powering up is like flexing a muscle. Krillin and Gohan etc suppressing their ki is like magically reducing their actual muscle mass.