How strong is base Goku?

[Power Level Guy]

It’s obviously Toriyama. People think he can do no wrong, but 90% of DBS’s problems come from him.

It was the manga that brought SSJ back first. Toriyama changed his mind from SSJG becoming base and Toei didn’t get the memo.

So where you at with Base power nowadays?

Base EoZ > Base ToP?

 

[GSM123]

Really? Then how come the movies seem consistent with the normal form thing? Goku & Vegeta vs Broly & stuff seemed indicative of it.

It wasn’t. BoG had Goku absorb SSJG, and in RoF it was just base (Saiyan Beyond God) and SSJB.

So where you at with Base power nowadays?

Base EoZ > Base ToP?

Who knows. EoZ base isn’t the same anymore since Oob has god ki.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

It wasn’t. BoG had Goku absorb SSJG, and in RoF it was just base (Saiyan Beyond God) and SSJB.



Who knows. EoZ base isn’t the same anymore since Oob has god ki.

Yeah & they normal forms were power-full in the Broly movie.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Who knows. EoZ base isn’t the same anymore since Oob has god ki.

That doesn’t mean he can access it at will though. Dai Kaisohin held his hand to bring it out.

Goku has forgotten about Uub as well.

 

[GSM123]

Yeah & they normal forms were power-full in the Broly movie.

Not really. They fight Broly a bit, but Broly wasn’t that strong in the beginning of the movie. The fights were 100% Toei too, Toriyama only does the words.

What in the anime made them feel weak? The anime is where we have the most base form action.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Not really. They fight Broly a bit, but Broly wasn’t that strong in the beginning of the movie. The fights were 100% Toei too, Toriyama only does the words.

What in the anime made them feel weak? The anime is where we have the most base form action.

“He’s awesome! He’s starting to hold his own in his base form!” (or something like that)

I didn’t even think of this until today thanks to something else but this was Goku about Broly (when he was fighting SS-Jin Vegeta). Clearly their regular forms are supposed to be power-full on their own when AT writes.

 

[GSM123]

“He’s awesome! He’s starting to hold his own in his base form!” (or something like that)

I didn’t even think of this until today thanks to something else but this was Goku about Broly (when he was fighting SS-Jin Vegeta). Clearly their regular forms are supposed to be power-full on their own when AT writes.

I don’t get it? Your issue is that nobody calls them strong in the anime (even though they do)?

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I don’t get it? Your issue is that nobody calls them strong in the anime (even though they do)?

Yeah, except Goku fights Kuririn as a SSJ-Blue or Kuririn fighting with #18 or Kuririn & then being chosen-over Goten & Trunks despite the writers saying that Goten & Trunks were still more power-full. Or Goku fighting against Kale & Caulifla in his normal form & only winning because he’s more skilled (that skill sure helped him against Freeza on Namek.) Are you really trying to defend DB-Super anime writing?

 

[Scott]

It was retconned. Gokuu doesn't absorb shit in the manga.

 

[GSM123]

Yeah, except Goku fights Kuririn as a SSJ-Blue or Kuririn fighting with #18 or Kuririn & then being chosen-over Goten & Trunks despite the writers saying that Goten & Trunks were still more power-full. Or Goku fighting against Kale & Caulifla in his normal form & only winning because he’s more skilled (that skill sure helped him against Freeza on Namek.) Are you really trying to defend DB-Super anime writing?

No I was just trying to understand what you're talking about (But now I do)

 

[Aksil]

Base being SSG isn't a thing anymore for both since the U6 arc

 

[Power Level Guy]

Base being SSG isn't a thing anymore for both since the U6 arc

Sure but at the time it was as in the intention of the montage drawing is exactly what it was suggested to be.

 

[GSM123]

There’s no question of what was the intent at the time. The question is whether this intent has changed, and if it did how it affects the story.

 

[Power Level Guy]

There’s no question of what was the intent at the time. The question is whether this intent has changed, and if it did how it affects the story.

Not for this current discussion. The issue is what the Oozaru montage is meant to indicate.

 

[GSM123]

Not for this current discussion. The issue is what the Oozaru montage is meant to indicate.

Oozaru montage? You mean SSJG?

 

[Power Level Guy]

Oozaru montage? You mean SSJG?

I’m using the SSG montage to prove Oozaru Fist implication.

 

[GSM123]

I’m using the SSG montage to prove Oozaru Fist implication.

Then you’re discussing with yourself. This is a thread about DBS base Goku and nobody brought up Oozaru Fist. Pretty sure everybody agreed Oozaru Fist is 10x anyway.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Then you’re discussing with yourself. This is a thread about DBS base Goku and nobody brought up Oozaru Fist. Pretty sure everybody agreed Oozaru Fist is 10x anyway.

Yeah I think I got the threads mixed up lol.

So what are we thinking for Base in Super?

Wasn’t there something in the Moro Arc that was troubling?

For me…

Base EoZ Goku ~ Good Buu > Base Goku ToP

Is fine, I think?

 

[GSM123]

Yeah I think I got the threads mixed up lol.

So what are we thinking for Base in Super?

Wasn’t there something in the Moro Arc that was troubling?

For me…

Base EoZ Goku ~ Good Buu > Base Goku ToP

Is fine, I think?

Dende says he can’t heal Goku because he has god-like power, but that’s probably accounting for his forms.

I think we can aim to keep the EoZ ceiling in the manga, but I’m not sure if it’s needed. Mr Boo and Oob got haxed. In the anime he’s at the very very very least Ultimate Gohan level. Not enough contradictions to warrant nerfing retconning him.

 

[Power Level Guy]

I think we can aim to keep the EoZ ceiling in the manga, but I’m not sure if it’s needed. Mr Boo and Oob got haxed. In the anime he’s at the very very very least Ultimate Gohan level. Not enough contradictions to warrant nerfing retconning him.

There is zero hax suggested for Mr. Buu or Uub in the manga though. They required Dai Kaioshin to bring it out of them they can’t do it on their own. Uub at EoZ has no training.

Also, who cares about the anime? The anime goes by the Base = SSJG hax? You can’t have it both ways. If you wish to remove the Base = God that means you completely abandon the anime and only focus on the manga. There’s no other way.