SSJ2s DB Levels

SSJ2 said:

Yeah, I am. A 3x boost from Roshi's training doesn't feel anywhere near enough.

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3x isn't enough? Lol Damn...

So how strong do you have Yamcha getting doing wilderness training on his own?

SSJ2 said:

This is probably one of the most incredible one shots in the entire manga. That little engagement was enough for Goku to tell Krillin not to use anywhere near his full strength. As if tapping that massive fighter was anywhere near his full strength...

It's crazy to only see a 3x gap here.

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There are a bunch of outlier feats in early DB. Krillen punching the Orin Temple Bully through the wall being one of them.


Not sure why 3x wouldn't be enough. This level of power would allow for Goku to finger flick people much stronger than Mr. Satan.

Finger flick gap ain't good enough for you?

Pterodactyl is > Smilodon (Saber-Toothed Tiger)?

Animelover5487 said:

Does 25th TB Videl really scale to Mr. Satan though? Even before she knew about ki she was stronger than Satan. Being capable of utilizing ki likely helped her considerably in making gains. I mean she broke the neck of a Majin powered Spopovich, Satan couldn't even severely injure a skinny gunman.

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Satan ran up a whole ass mountain. IIRC he was clearly fatigued when he tackled the rich dude.

Satan: 6.66
Videl: 7
~ Post training: 9

Spopovich/Yamu: 8

Goku (BoDB): 20?

GreatSaiyaman123 said:

Satan ran up a whole ass mountain. IIRC he was clearly fatigued when he tackled the rich dude.

Satan: 6.66
Videl: 7
~ Post training: 9

Spopovich/Yamu: 8

Goku (BoDB): 20?

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Pterodactyl is > Smilodon (Saber-Toothed Tiger)?

SIAD said:

Pterodactyl is > Smilodon (Saber-Toothed Tiger)?

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If my Wild Life Power Levels thread doesn’t have an answer, I’ll research and answer later.

Power Level Guy said:

3x isn't enough? Lol Damn...

So how strong do you have Yamcha getting doing wilderness training on his own?

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Between the start of the series and the Budokai? About 3x. Half as much as I give Goku/Krillin.

Power Level Guy said:

There are a bunch of outlier feats in early DB. Krillen punching the Orin Temple Bully through the wall being one of them.


Not sure why 3x wouldn't be enough. This level of power would allow for Goku to finger flick people much stronger than Mr. Satan.

Finger flick gap ain't good enough for you?

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This is far beyond a finger flick. Goku just making contact with this guy sends him flying out of the ring in pain. You can call it an outlier but this scene was put in for a reason - to demonstrate how insanely powerful Goku had become.

@SSJ2

Where did Yamcha get 3x more power from? From training in the woods?

@SSJ2

You think this is a superior feat to Kami finger flicking Goku?

SSJ2 said:

It's crazy to only see a 3x gap here.

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Why do you think that guy is as strong as BoDB Goku? That was literally Goku's first fight.

Power Level Guy said:

@SSJ2

Where did Yamcha get 3x more power from? From training in the woods?

@SSJ2

You think this is a superior feat to Kami finger flicking Goku?

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From training. Yamcha arguably has greater potential than Krillin given that he became his equal at the 22nd with less training from Roshi. Him making those gains is more than reasonable. It's still far less than Goku and Krillin made.

The feats are pretty comparable really.

GreatSaiyaman123 said:

Why do you think that guy is as strong as BoDB Goku? That was literally Goku's first fight.

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Obviously not.

We're talking about the gap between BoDB Goku and 21st Goku. Keep up.

SSJ2 said:

Him making those gains is more than reasonable. It's still far less than Goku and Krillin made.

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Yamcha made 3x growth and Goku and Krillen made how much?

SSJ2 said:

We're talking about the gap between BoDB Goku and 21st Goku. Keep up.

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How strong do you have the strong man? Seems like a typical normal human. I'd say he's around 5-6 or so.

Power Level Guy said:

Yamcha made 3x growth and Goku and Krillen made how much?


How strong do you have the strong man? Seems like a typical normal human. I'd say he's around 5-6 or so.

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Goku about 6x without tail, 8x once the tail was back. Krillin around 5x. It’s more than fair when you look at where they started to where they finished. They actually became capable of moving that massive rock. Just think about how insane that is.

As for that strong man, yeah probably 6-6.25.

On my new list I have Goku gaining 4x without tail and 6x with tail. Krillin gains 5x. Yamcha gains 3x.

SSJ2 said:

Goku about 6x without tail, 8x once the tail was back. Krillin around 5x. It’s more than fair when you look at where they started to where they finished. They actually became capable of moving that massive rock. Just think about how insane that is.

As for that strong man, yeah probably 6-6.25.

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Hmm damn. I want to argue against your gaps, but I do tend to be a minimalist so I know there's more spacing. Usually my Great Ape Goku > Gohan bit ends this sort of debate, but that's not cutting it here.

But I will say my spacing is plenty for that gap. I think I have Goku around 110-120 or so at the Budokai to this dude who is a 6. That's like 20x gap bro, I don't think you have countered me in a way that deems my position unplausible. I mean I have double finger flick level, that should do it.

Moving the rock is impressive indeed. I guess I am severely limited by my Oozaru Goku > Gohan to see it any other way too much.

I don't think I have a kryptonite response for you right now. Not for this topic or even the fusion multipliers. I feel like you are wrong, but if I don't have any way to truly debunk it, it is what it is.

This is fun, I have been enjoying our debates a lot lately. Feels good to be challenged and countered by good points.

There is something out there I'll have to find it. When I do my re-reading of DB, I'm hoping to have that KO punch on this topic.

So how do you feel about my spacing for Tao here.


Jackie Chun 150
Mummy 160
Devil Man 240
Tao Pai Pai 360
Gohan 375
Goku 400

Likewise, you’re one of the few who make me consider angles I’ve never thought of before. I always enjoy discussing this stuff.

I will say that I am in the same boat regarding this debate. If you view it with a minimalist lens then there’s nothing wrong with your argument. If you have a 20x gap there that is actually double what I have so I can’t argue with it.

The argument comes down to the Oozaru Gohan thing. I just can’t get around the logic of Gohan even being alive to warn Goku not to look at the moon if he already encountered Oozaru Goku, who was much stronger than himself. It just doesn’t make sense. And maybe there’s a touch of bias with me wanting to make Tao Pai Pai’s tier much stronger. I mean this guy beat someone relatively close to 21st Goku level with his tongue. That level of power is hard for me to look at with a minimalist approach.

I can’t fault those numbers whatsoever, that’s very similar to how I’d have it. I’m gonna finish the RRA arc soon and will update my new list.

SSJ2 said:

I can’t fault those numbers whatsoever, that’s very similar to how I’d have it. I’m gonna finish the RRA arc soon and will update my new list.

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Awesome.

I think the first few sagas flow very well. It'll be about time someone does a good DB list. I have my strategy.

Even though Farmer is like .0005 or whatever in my list, I'll scale him as 5 for DB so it's not too annoying to look at and let them know that 1 is actually .0001 and so on.

And yea, let's super master DB, my Z is pretty much 99% done so not much needed to do there. I have to add the ki amp progression that I worked on a long time ago. Still haven't adjusted DB to the new logic.

That's where I'm going to get you to change a lot. Your ki blast logic gotta be legit with me, no one ever brings that into debates, but I will feast on every example of overpowered ki blasts. And we typically hide certain blasts because they break things.

SSJ2 said:

From training. Yamcha arguably has greater potential than Krillin given that he became his equal at the 22nd with less training from Roshi. Him making those gains is more than reasonable. It's still far less than Goku and Krillin made.

The feats are pretty comparable really.


Obviously not.

We're talking about the gap between BoDB Goku and 21st Goku. Keep up.

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So what’s the big deal about Goku doing that to a normal human? Even BoS Goku shouldn’t be too far from replicating that feat.