SSJ2s DB Levels

SSJ2

Zeta Elite
Staff member
Founder
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
66,351
Age
28
How did you come to that conclusion? His speed?
I'd need to reread it again but I recall him casually jumping over a building like it was nothing. Yamcha also feared him as a great martial artist. I can see him taking the Bear Thief relatively easily.

It's possible without knowing how to properly use his ki, he can't do much as well for defense. But it's weird to think about Freeza taking any damage from a gang of Nails.
Agreed, I guess we chalk it up to a lack of knowledge of ki.

You've always viewed it that Gohan could easily one shot people who could one shot Oozaru Goku?
Goku grew so much stronger by the time he fought Gohan that fitting it into a 10x gap feels unreasonable to me.
 

GreatSaiyaman123

Super Elite
Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
15,025
Age
22
BoDB Goku is a bit weird to me. His strength feats are plain absurd, but in the 100m run he and Kuririn are only slightly better than real life records.

Beat Bandit is at least crushing a car with his bare hands, but size and power level have nothing to do with each other so idk what I’d make of him.

Gohan definitely doesn’t want to fight Oozaru Goku, but we can’t draw any conclusions from that. It’s better to just not list Oozaru altogether.
 

Power Level Guy

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2023
Messages
1,177
I'd need to reread it again but I recall him casually jumping over a building like it was nothing. Yamcha also feared him as a great martial artist. I can see him taking the Bear Thief relatively easily.
Remember how legit Bear Thief is though. Bulma literally witnessed Goku smash the Pterodactyl with absolute ease and despite that she thinks Bear Thief will kill Goku.

Bear Thief > Expected Goku >> Pterodactyl

And the Pterodactyl is capable of holding Bulma in his hands like she's a child. No average human has any chance against this Pterodactyl. You'd have to be superhuman (by our standards).

Pterodactyl should be able to defeat Mike Tyson, Brock Lesnar, and Shaq with ease. And if Hercule is a 6.66, those guys can't be much above that. I'd say our peak humans in reality top out at 7-7.5 or so. Hercule is a legit world champion in a world of freaks. In our world Hercule would be legit, but obviously we are going to put those super freaks we have above him I'd say. Tyson is probably going to be my highest power level guy. But even then the most I can put him at is like 8 or something. I can see him absolutely smashing Hercule, but he's not pulling off any Goku vs Ginyu feats you know?

Agreed, I guess we chalk it up to a lack of knowledge of ki.
Yeah, that's how I've resolved a lot of Part 1 issues. Without proper ki knowledge their defense is just not the same. They are more reliant on their bodies and natural ki defense but don't have the hardened ki defense others might have. I don't go too far with this because power level is power level, but it is a bit different in Part 1 no doubt.

Goku grew so much stronger by the time he fought Gohan that fitting it into a 10x gap feels unreasonable to me.
I have him fit into it quite reasonably. It took a lot of time, but it's possible. There's nothing we can do about the 10x Oozaru boost, this isn't like the SSJ2 boost or whatever, we are completely restricted by it. The Oozaru boost would force new interpretations on you that should be accepted. We have our limits and should abide by them. And we don't even have the play that Future 17 gave us with his less than half. I have to stretch that one because of the legit power gaps, but if Future 17 stated something like he is actually 40% power, we'd have no choice to cram everything in.

BoDB Goku is a bit weird to me. His strength feats are plain absurd, but in the 100m run he and Kuririn are only slightly better than real life records.
One way to alleviate that is knowing that travel speed and movement speed have nothing to do with each other. They might be moving at light speed in their battles but when they travel they are only like Mach 5 or whatever.

Beat Bandit is at least crushing a car with his bare hands, but size and power level have nothing to do with each other so idk what I’d make of him.
Size and power level typically go hand in hand for non-ki experts. If you just randomly see a giant bear and you see an old man with a turtle shell on his back, it's safe to assume that the giant bear would kill the old man. Now we know in this case, it's not actually true. But the assumptions from our world carry over into theirs. They aren't assuming everyone is secretly a martial arts master. Size matters, bigger people beat smaller people. So much so we had to keep smaller people away from fighting bigger people because it's unfair to the smaller people. All those natural facts should remain true.

Bear Bandit is a monstrous power. He easily defeats every human in our world. Multiples of them. Bear Bandit would absolutely demolish Shaq, Brock, and Tyson with the greatest of ease. They'd crap themselves if they were locked in a room with them. They have zero chance. They have zero chance against the Pterodactyl let alone Bear Thief.

It's going to take something supernatural to defeat the Bear Thief.
 

SSJ2

Zeta Elite
Staff member
Founder
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
66,351
Age
28
emember how legit Bear Thief is though. Bulma literally witnessed Goku smash the Pterodactyl with absolute ease and despite that she thinks Bear Thief will kill Goku.

Bear Thief > Expected Goku >> Pterodactyl

And the Pterodactyl is capable of holding Bulma in his hands like she's a child. No average human has any chance against this Pterodactyl. You'd have to be superhuman (by our standards).
Let's take a step back and evaluate it from the narrative perspective. Is Bulma really making these calculations on the fly in the very early days of DB? She knows nothing about combat, and still knows next to nothing about Goku. I think it's more simple from her perspective. Big Bear with sword = bad. It feels like we are projecting our own power scaling logic onto Bulma when it's incredibly unlikely that she is thinking in this way.
I have him fit into it quite reasonably. It took a lot of time, but it's possible. There's nothing we can do about the 10x Oozaru boost, this isn't like the SSJ2 boost or whatever, we are completely restricted by it. The Oozaru boost would force new interpretations on you that should be accepted. We have our limits and should abide by them. And we don't even have the play that Future 17 gave us with his less than half. I have to stretch that one because of the legit power gaps, but if Future 17 stated something like he is actually 40% power, we'd have no choice to cram everything in.
What is so wrong with the other interpretation though? Where is the contradiction with Gohan being able to one shot Oozaru Goku level fighters? Oozaru Goku's best feat is throwing small pieces of buildings around. Son Gohan is stronger than Tao Pai Pai who could throw a massive pillar thousands of kilometers through the air. That seems far more impressive to me.
 

SSJ2

Zeta Elite
Staff member
Founder
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
66,351
Age
28
That's a general statement though. Gohan isn't going to be with Goku forever and needs to make sure Goku won't recklessly transform. And Gohan obviously survived Oozaru Goku in the past if he knew Goku couldn't look at the moon. Why would he survive then but not now?
 

Power Level Guy

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2023
Messages
1,177
100% @SSJ2

Bulma serves as a narrative tool. Put it this way, if you watched someone destroy Mike Tyson but then they were about to fight Francis Ngannou, you’d probably say damn that dude is about to get knocked out.

Why? Because Francis is clearly a tremendously bigger threat than current Mike Tyson.

It’s the same concept.

Bear Thief > Expected Goku > Pterodactyl.

We often confuse real world evaluations for this power leveling stuff. We all power scale on a daily basis, sizing people up and so on.

Goku 50
Bear Thief 25
Expected Goku 20
Pterodactyl 15

Remember, Bulma is in absolute shock that Goku is that strong after defeating Bear Bandit.
 

Animelover5487

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2015
Messages
2,844
Wouldn't Expected Goku be stronger? Goku beat Pterodactyl with a single slap from his power pole. It wasn't remotely close.
 

Power Level Guy

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2023
Messages
1,177
Wouldn't Expected Goku be stronger? Goku beat Pterodactyl with a single slap from his power pole. It wasn't remotely close.
It could be.

maybe you can argue Bear Bandit is even stronger. Maybe we make Expected Goku 1.5x Pterodactyl. Which means I’d probably drop Pterodactyl to 12 or something then. You raise a good point. This is why these little levels matter like Expectations of a fighter and so on.
 

Animelover5487

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2015
Messages
2,844
It could be.

maybe you can argue Bear Bandit is even stronger. Maybe we make Expected Goku 1.5x Pterodactyl. Which means I’d probably drop Pterodactyl to 12 or something then. You raise a good point. This is why these little levels matter like Expectations of a fighter and so on.
Yeah. Where do you put Monster Carrot at? I am tempted to say he's stronger than Bear Bandit due to Yamcha's warriness around him but that seems to have more to do with his carrot touching hax.
 

SIAD

Elite
Member
Joined
May 30, 2015
Messages
8,058
Age
33
@Animelover5487
@Power Level Guy

I always thought that Giant Thief Bear was around 18 feet tall and with his armor he could destroy an Elephant.

I always attributed the scene of the sharks chasing Goku and Krillin to the fact that the Sharks are in the water and there Goku and Krillin have a clear disadvantage.
 

Power Level Guy

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2023
Messages
1,177
@Animelover5487
@Power Level Guy

I always thought that Giant Thief Bear was around 18 feet tall and with his armor he could destroy an Elephant.

I always attributed the scene of the sharks chasing Goku and Krillin to the fact that the Sharks are in the water and there Goku and Krillin have a clear disadvantage.
They run from the T-Rex too and even post training the Octopus does some damage to Goku.
 

SIAD

Elite
Member
Joined
May 30, 2015
Messages
8,058
Age
33
@Power Level Guy

How many times stronger is the Giant Thief Bear than a real-life Human?

Ignoring DB scaling.

I think it could be hundreds of times.
 

Power Level Guy

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2023
Messages
1,177
@Power Level Guy

How many times stronger is the Giant Thief Bear than a real-life Human?

Ignoring DB scaling.

I think it could be hundreds of times.
I'm not in the business of measuring physical strength. I measure ki power. The ability to deliver force.

So that's why for me Mike Tyson is at a really high power level, even though he's nowhere close to being the World's Strongest Man, like an Eddie Hall or whatever.

Tyson's ki reading should be much higher than Eddie's. Having superior physical strength is a good thing to have in a fight, but often times it doesn't necessarily determine it. Especially in the striking world, the Z universe has pretty much zero grappling in it. It's a striker's world.
 

SIAD

Elite
Member
Joined
May 30, 2015
Messages
8,058
Age
33
I'm not in the business of measuring physical strength. I measure ki power. The ability to deliver force.

So that's why for me Mike Tyson is at a really high power level, even though he's nowhere close to being the World's Strongest Man, like an Eddie Hall or whatever.

Tyson's ki reading should be much higher than Eddie's. Having superior physical strength is a good thing to have in a fight, but often times it doesn't necessarily determine it. Especially in the striking world, the Z universe has pretty much zero grappling in it. It's a striker's world.
@Power Level Guy
@GreatSaiyaman123
@Animelover5487

Who is stronger between the Giant Thief Bear and the Mother Bear from the DBGT Special?
 
Top