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Glad to see you back, I have to say that back on that last debate I wasn't actually calm, but you weren't the issue, rather a heated discussion I had on that day irl, I just apologize myself and I have to say that your approaches are quite good even if I don't agree entirely all the time.

Well, he was weaker than 17. As believed by him. He represented 60% of Android 17?

From the time before of his fight with Imperfect Cell, we have the following: *Android 17 says that according to his data, he is stronger than him *Android 18 offers him to test in a fight with Vegeta (although she lacks of knowledge of Vegeta's strength) *Android 17 wants him to help if the...

Yeah, I've thought that it has many weak points too. But SSJ2 Gohan's energy already contributed to get half of the kili meter and severly drained.

Gohan says this: "I think both my father and Vegeta are fighting, both at a level that surpass Super Saiyan. The energy they're expelling must be enormous." So, basically Gohan thinks that because Goku and Vegeta are fighting at a level beyond SSJ is because they were able to fulfill the kili...

Stronger than Imperfect Cell pre, but weaker than Imperfect Cell post by the same amount Future Androids are weaker than the Present ones.

It wouldn't be off-character because he always let his opponents charge their maximum attack and counter it with a stronger move. The Kaioshin said that Jiren was still on top.

The scene is to mimic Cell making a fool our of Vegeta, in this case, Jiren is making a fool of Vegeta wanting him to believe that he has defeated him, but afterwards, he made him realize that he was wrong. He didn't even made a scratch on his whole uniform because he tanked it and didn't do...

How? Jiren overpowered him on a beam struggle and Goku needed a speed increase to fight on his level, because before, he was losing.

@SIAD

It is refering that Vegeta would always be inferior to Goku, not neccesarily that they have the same gap of a time.

I am starting to think that the Hidden power of Jiren would serve the same way Grade 2 served on the Saiyans (aka same increase), so that's what I'm willing to have: UI Goku = 100 Jiren = 110 MUI Goku (initial) = 176 Hidden power Jiren = 200 MUI Goku (Speed up) = 200 MUI Goku (After Jiren...

The scene is Jiren making out a fool of Vegeta making it seem as if he won, but appearing with a sneak attack. He didn't had it, even when he went over the sea.

At least I have: SSJ Vegeta/Trunks: 66 50% SSJ Gohan: 70 SSJ Goku: 100 SSJ Gohan: 140

What do you think?

He was pretending to be on the floor. Going by technicalities, why would Cell appear with an aura after receiving Piccolo's LG if fhat isn't supposed to mean that he increased his defenses?

I have Gohan at 75% of Toppo. Do you think the Kamehameha was barely amped if at all? Or that this scene simply makes no sense?

Your thoughts?

Why didn't he just taught him the technique?

So it is needed to generalize?